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#321 Moonstruck Timberwolf

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:17 PM

Depends on how you define the pro choice position. Looks like the vast majority of people actually think that abortion shouldn't be legal except in certain circumstances. It seems to me that a large part of the reason that the abortion business is as free of regulation as it is is that the pro life lobby is bad about taking what concessions they can get. They could use a political strategy similar to the one used by the Republican party way back during its beginnings: they were against slavery, but started with simply limiting its expansion.

I wouldn't say that both sides have solid moral viewpoints, however. Assuming atheism, both sides would appear to be pulling their moral viewpoints out of their asses. So it would less that they're both solid, and more that they're both equally poorly grounded in rationality.

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#322 Yosh

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:39 PM

Okay, the "majority" question is gonna go like this - since abortion is legal and had to get that way (it didn't just burst in existence as a legal practice) it's safe to assume that it is the choice of the majority. If you're going to claim "the vast majority of people actually think that abortion shouldn't be legal except in certain circumstances", you're going to have to cite multiple sources on that - reliable sources. You're going to have to show, through those sources, that people believe that abortion shouldn't be legal except in the same few circumstances. I'm assuming those circumstances are basically rape, but whatever they are, you're going to have to show through those sources that the "vast majority" agrees that they are the circumstances that abortion should be legal in, and no other.

Otherwise, you're just pulling this out of your ass to support yourself. It's very common for pro-life people to claim without any evidence that the majority agrees with them.

Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

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#323 Moonstruck Timberwolf

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:36 PM

Citation? Sure thing.

http://www.gallup.co...6/abortion.aspx

There you go.

Welcome to our little slice of paradise. Do stay awhile, fun times await.

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#324 Yosh

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 06:28 PM

Right, I guess you can just ignore most of my post and link to a Gallup Poll. If I were asked that question, in that specific poll, I'd answer certain circumstances as well - because it means regulation, sanitation - the use of clinics. You interpret it to mean cases like rape, or whatever the fuck else.

Good job completely ignoring that I asked for multiple sources as well.

Show me multiple sources that show that the majority of Americans agree with YOUR SPECIFIC STANCE.

Or stop saying that the majority of people agree with you.

Simple.

And perhaps you aren't INTENDING to suggest that most people agree with you, but just that, as you said, "the vast majority of people believe abortion should only be legal under certain circumstances" - as I just said, if those certain circumstances aren't detailed, then yeah most people are going to agree - because most people will agree that abortion requires regulation. So what you're saying there doesn't support your stance at all, it's just misleading.


EDIT: In fact, looking at your own cited resource, the majority of people identify themselves as Pro-Choice over Pro-Life, while a greater majority agree that there should be "certain circumstances" of legality - the question of pro-life or pro-choice was asked right after the question of legality, tying them together. What we can glean from this is that the majority of people support the woman's right to choose - but the majority also believe that this should be under certain circumstances. Maybe I'm crazy but that certainly seems to suggest to me that these people want regulation, but not the kind of "exception to the rule" regulation that you seem to support, where abortion is allowed only under very specific circumstances.

Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

NITRO/DURF/THUNK/LUNE/SEH/MIDIAN/DRSEXSTIX/JARLAXLE/KALEIDO/YOSHIQUACK/OMEGABLASTER/BYOXXYL

MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#325 Metronome

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:01 PM

There was a noticeable difference in the way people respond to my argument points. I actually try and make my posts reflect on the points other people have proposed, rather than merrily repeat my points and bring up subjectivity into the mix. And it'd happen to be that I often use confusing or extraneous language too.

But I don't bring down a wall of people pointing out that my posts have no content.

/self fulfillment portion done.







If the ideals of rights in an atheist paradigm aren't clearly made, or illogically made because they are made by a majority, not a particular reason, at the very least, so are the ideals of religion. However, the ideals on the side of the atheist paradigm are held up by the absence of many things the atheist side deems illogical.

Should it be the case that the rights of a mother/fetus be not clearly defined on an atheist paradigm, consensus would be reached based on some form of logic. In our present case, I would assume that our decision was based on logic, (obviously) rather than bible, or (less obviously to MSTW) some convoluted conspiracy to make him look bad.

The atheist paradigm, can therefore claim to be pulling nothing out of its ass.




Seriously though. The fact that an opinion is held by the majority is irrelevant. The reason why it is held is important. Assuming that it is only held by the status quo is fine, until you ask someone and they say that they have separate reasons for upholding it. Unless their reasons are not coherent, claiming that they are liars is an attack on the person.

Hurr durr.
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