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#501 Leo

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:03 PM

i understand the logic. i just don't like it because of the way i handle games in general. i don't like optimization if it means giving up enjoyment, and honestly spamming the same 3 combos over and over just can't be fun for me. i mean, that's just a personal preference though like i said at the beginning of my earlier post =P i'm not expecting anyone to go out of their way to learn something new just for me, especially since i don't even play bayonetta to begin with.


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#502 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:09 PM

Alright, I'm not normally the type to gloat but I just feel like I should post this

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=vbnvhBvQ73g

 

I'm the ZSS.


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#503 Krevin

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 10:32 PM

Yo that dsmash to down b was sick AF.

I think people will start learning the Bayonetta matchup and it'll fizzle out. The best strategy seems to be playing a safe neutral, forcing her to tack on damage with footsies, rather than ever being able to hit a combo. The higher damage, the harder you are to combo, thus making the matchup safer.

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#504 Krevin

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 01:22 AM

So there's some tournament happening rn on MVG League and doubles are happening rn and some Cloud player named Ross is putting in WORK with a Pikachu teammate. I think I've said it before, but I think Cloud in teams is HELLA OP. If you partner up with a really fast character like Pikachu or Fox that can approach, start little interactions, and create the opening for Cloud to land huge gigantic punishes. Plus one of the biggest challenges Cloud faces is that he has to constantly throw away his limit charge by recovering, and I feel like it's easier to stay on the stage in doubles. Idk, Cloud for SS tier in doubles, imo


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#505 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:55 PM

I agree 100%, Cloud is definitely the best doubles character, especially now that PSI Magnet and Bucket have been nerfed for doubles. He's so good at making the most of his teammate's openings.


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#506 Krevin

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:26 AM

Is Cloud > Bayo in doubles though?


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#507 Leo

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:43 AM

i think he might be. bayonetta is a little to obvious for doubles. easier to see coming imo.

 

Edit: but as you know zak has been very much wrong with his opinions on smash in the past XD


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#508 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:37 PM

Is Cloud > Bayo in doubles though?

 

Definitely. At least in dubs there's the opportunity for your teammate to interrupt Bayo combos and save you. Same goes for Witch Time. If your partner stays on top of her, those things lose a lot of their potency.


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#509 Krevin

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 01:28 PM

Okay so Bayo+Cloud in teams? Bayo initiates a combo, if Cloud can keep the other player separated then it's a free kill via Bayo, if not then Cloud has nobody focusing on him, so he can get a free kill.

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#510 Leo

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 01:42 PM

Why not cloud+Pikachu? I can see that being a pretty potent combination

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#511 Peppy Hare-nest

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 08:58 PM

Care to explain to me, a lurker who loves reading the elaborate strategy bits of this thread since he's unable to make his own due to his lack of imagination, what would make Cloud+Pikachu a pretty potent combination, please?

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#512 Leo

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 09:31 PM

Pikachu with his campy/fast gameplay can complement cloud very well. When I play pika anyway i usually end up with a hit and run kind of style that cloud can take advantage of.

Edit:that was my thinking behind it. Krev if you would care to weigh in on this I'd like to know if I'm on the right track myself =p

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#513 Krevin

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 11:44 PM

The basic team strategy in any Smash game is to have one character be the aggressor, while one character is the support. (If you're familiar with the game League of Legends, this is a very similar strategy to bottom lane, except in Smash you want the support to get kills, unlike in League where you only want the ADC to get kills). Then you have your aggressor "go in" and initiate situations with the enemy team, while the support stays back and looks for opportunities.

The common roles of the support are

  • Extending combos by hitting the opponent back into the aggressor's range
  • Finishing combos by landing a kill move during the aggressor's combo
  • Isolating the enemy support to separate the fight into two 1v1s instead of a 2v2
  • Stock tanking

Cloud's gigantic sword and powerful smash/special attacks allow him to maximize his role in KOing enemies during his teammates combo. He also has decent movement and recovery and can stock tank fairly well, making him a viable support all around. 

Pikachu would be a good partner for Cloud because Pikachu is a very aggressive, fast, combo oriented character. Pikachu's ability to land kills isn't great, which is why Pikachu is generally considered to be just below the top tier in singles, but in doubles this can be remedied by having Cloud as a partner to land kills. Pikachu is debatably the best when it comes to forcing your way in and starting combos, which is exactly what Cloud's teammate needs to do.


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#514 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 03:14 AM

Okay so Bayo+Cloud in teams? Bayo initiates a combo, if Cloud can keep the other player separated then it's a free kill via Bayo, if not then Cloud has nobody focusing on him, so he can get a free kill.

 

Definitely a beautiful combination.


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#515 Krevin

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 09:22 PM

I did a quick google search, and the first result showed that it's even more broken than I realized.
I had forgotten all about Bayo's time-stop thing, and her super strong/super slow smash attacks that never get used in singles.

https://www.youtube....h?v=xDeEB7WNxdY

Bayo is BUSTED AS HELL in doubles. I think a double Bayo team would be more broken than any team combination in any Smash installment so far.

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#516 Krevin

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 11:14 PM

Finally back on that 3ds grind (will be buying a Wii U eventually)
3ds friend code: 1521-3541-2186
Down to play if anybody else ever is.
Been playing a lot of ZSS and Corrin lately, and some Bowser Jr. and Yoshi as well. Wouldn't really consider any character my main quite yet, but I'll figure it out. It's probably going to be ZSS.

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#517 Leo

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 11:20 PM

I'd be down some time. I may not be quite where I want to be since I've gotten used to the wii u version though(there really is a big difference. More so than i thought would be there

FC:2380-6370-7972

Edit: I should note that I can't play online right now, or even add new friends on my 3ds to begin with. I just have to fix something real quick, but I haven't bothered to yet.

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#518 Krevin

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 04:46 AM

Yeah, the difference between 3ds and Wii U is actually really substantial. To the point where I don't even really know that they should have the same metagame.
I might stick to my low-tier buddies in the 3ds version so that I don't throw off my For Serious characters on the Wii U. So ZSS/Corrin (and maybe Yoshi?) would be Wii U only, and Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt, and Ike will be my top 3ds picks.
Going to a S4 tournament this Friday, first time since EVO. Scoping out a new venue that wants to start hosting Melee, also trying my hand at S4 again. Gonna mess around with ZSS and Corrin in friendlies before the bracket, whichever feels more comfortable will be the character I use all tournament, and I think I'll just keep that character as my main from there on out.

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#519 Leo

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 08:49 PM

aight, i got my online/friend thing working again, so i registered your FC.

 

ZSS feels really nice lately. i tried her out again a few days ago, and stomped in for glory(i know this means nothing, but still it felt nice). corrin i can't seem to get a handle on. might be the only swordfighter i really just don't like. i think it's the dair mostly. now if he/she had marth's dair that would be a different story entirely. i'd still prefer marth, but i could start having corrin as my main tbh.


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