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#21 Petuh

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:04 PM

lol of course black peeps were gonna protest after the verdict. Blame the media, they're the ones that blew this yawn-worthy case up to stir up another shit-flinging race war.

 

This is why I rarely watch 'the news'.



#22 Erif

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:34 AM

This whole thing is bullshit, race is completely irrelevant to this situation. Race is irrelevant always.

uh, no.


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#23 Shinta

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:17 PM

Race always has an affect on crime reports and prejudice. Had Trevon been white Zimmerman would have not done anything. The sad reality is racial perception in America through media perpetuates blacks as violent monsters. If you watch the news more often you hear about a violent crime by a black suspect than another race. Furthermore the stereotype is further created by social inequality. Many of the black criminals in prison are innocent. They accept the plea of guilty due to the lack of understanding of the system and the inability to get a hold of a competent  attorney who is not overloaded with cases (IE. A public defender). With a large amount of Blacks in prison many of them become another statistic of  the media created fear. 

 

Now lets look at a video from ABC that shows the racial factor of racial prejudice:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=VQHdbW36XjE

 

I believe Zimmerman had the right to defend himself and support the decision in court. There was not enough evidence. He had an excellent lawyer. The Prosecutor had little to run on. They were not even allowed to use a demo. But what got me was this video/link below. Zimmerman had to have his gun out the whole time. 

http://politicalblin...zimmerman-lied/

 

I support the court's verdict, there was not enough evidence 'beyond reasonable doubt' to convict him. Furthermore I think it was inappropriate for Obama to tell the people the verdict.



#24 Yosh

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:39 PM

"Had Trevon been white Zimmerman would have not done anything." Complete speculation.

 

the link to so-called "proof" is nonsense. All based on one particular position that we don't know they were in. 

 

you hear about crimes by black suspects more on the news because frankly, they happen far more often. not saying that the news is totally truthful and everything, but in that particular aspect, that's the reason. if anything the media has an agenda to blow up crimes between the races more than anything, and certainly not in an anti-black way. After all, Zimmerman is of mixed race and the media outlets purposefully made a big deal of him being "white" in order to perpetuate the idea of a racially charged crime. Why? Because it gets people riled up and that equals dollar signs.

 

listen to the tape of him reporting it to the police. he definitely doesn't make a big deal of trayvon being black, and doesn't even mention it until specifically asked, if I remember correctly.


Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

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#25 Shinta

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:50 AM

The position is how it was described. Meaning it is possible that it GZ lied. As why I think GZ should be tried in a civil case  and created the situation is a big problem. He was told not to follow TM by the police. This was an undisputed fact. Had he listened nothing would have happened. He is guilty of creating cause and effect. Self defense that is a different story.

 

Although you say had TM had been white is just speculation. Sociological studies have proven otherwise.There is a statistically a higher probability that if he had been white nothing would have happened. Race is a major factor in suspecting TM.  But was GZ racist? No. He had a black girlfriend he was a nice guy. It is a subconscious reaction to assume, due to our media,  that a black person is up to no good. But in reality that is not true. Now look at crime reports, and local news. You will see often the term Black male or Hispanic male. I am not blaming GZ for it. He was not aware of it himself. In such I do not hold him accountable for any racial crime. You and I may have the same issue but not know it ourselves. Walk at night one day

 

I stand by the courts on their decision. What irks me is that the description of the incident as described by GZ was impossible. It took a MA expert to hold the actor down. Had Zimmerman been in the situation, he could not have pulled the gun out. This is assuming TM was a MA expert. Which he was not. Zimmerman had lied. But I believe it is right he was acquitted. But I believe he is guilty of a civil crime. vigilantism, and disobeying the police and creating a dangerous situation, there by endangering the lives of others. This is clear cut. 

 

I am saying this, race is not the issue as to a social problem in the US. TM being white has an actual affect which sociologically can not be ignored. This should not be blown up to a racial crime at all. It is vigilantism.



#26 Yosh

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:27 AM

It is a situation that started as a neighborhood watch issue, which is NOT vigilantism. GZ was not looking for a fight, and those who say he was are speaking out of pure speculation - just like when you infer that the results of a sociological study somehow give you a psychic's view into another man's mind. 

 

Neither you nor I can know whether there was any racial motivation at all - just because a black person was suspected of doing something wrong does not mean he was suspected BECAUSE he's black, and sociological studies won't change that. We simply can't know, and none of the evidence points toward it at all. 

 

I'll believe your "proof" when you link the exact words from GZ's mouth that confirm he claimed something which you can disprove. I doubt you'll be able to. I'm not just going to take your word for it when you say "that's the position they were in". All of these ridiculous loopholes being exploited to attempt to harm the man in any way possible out of pure spite... it's disgusting. Wanna look up some interesting numbers and statistics, look me up how many unarmed black kids Trayvon's age were murdered by other black people in 2012. Then find me ONE of them that has had a THIRD of the publicity the GZ/TM case has had. 

 

Now that's a task you can't accomplish.


Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

NITRO/DURF/THUNK/LUNE/SEH/MIDIAN/DRSEXSTIX/JARLAXLE/KALEIDO/YOSHIQUACK/OMEGABLASTER/BYOXXYL

MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#27 XX++Archangel__Darkangel//

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:40 PM

At least you guys don't have to listen to endless bullshit about assylum seekers.

#28 Shinta

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 04:13 AM

Nothing is ever definitive.  Sociological studies examine trends through statistical evidence. Race has been studied for years. Even today it is a huge topic being studied by sociologist. In general these studies focus on much of the social psychological information through research of qualitative and quantitative research. Because some is black people are suspect them for a crime. This is a statistical fact. This is not, keyword not, something people are conscious of. The truth is I don't like this is true. Now lets look at cities. Where are the bad neighborhoods? Well if you look at a demographic chart, you will a trend see places with a high percentage of Black and Hispanics called bad neighborhoods. This perpetuation of a racial stereotype, both subconscious and conscious creates a image for us to see a correlation of race and perceptions of negativity. Here is a experience you can try yourself. Walk down the bad part of town at night. Then examine what you feel as you walk past people.

 

I do not believe there was any racial motivation in the incident. There wasn't any but there was a priming to suspect TM could be up to no good.  Anyone could have suspected the same thing without knowing.  George Zimmerman was not racist. It was  a result of a grander social issue.

 

Vigilantism is a crime he did commit. Neighborhood watch is not to engage with a suspect. They are to only call the police are to do such a thing. Getting involved is an act of vigilantism. Neighborhood watch is not allowed to engage in vigilant acts.

 

Defintion Vigilante

 

vig·i·lan·te  (vj-lnt)
n.
1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.
2. A member of a vigilance committee.
 

GM was not a part of a Vigilant group, and he took the law in his own hands. He became a vigilante after he was specifically told by the police to not to peruse. Not to do anything. Neighborhood watch serves one purpose only. Someone watches and reports the crime as it is happening. The police come and take care of it. 

 

Did George Zimmerman shoot him because he had to? Dunno. Little is known. One thing is for certain though. The act of vigilantism did cause the series of unknown events that killed TM. He saw TM, called the police and told not to follow him, chased TM, (something happened), he got hurt in the process, (something happened), he used his gun.  That is all that is truly known, I agree with you it has blown out of proportions.  

 

 

 

--------------

Here is an article to read, there are many more like it. Many which are recent, which you can pull up on any University library:

 

Public Perceptions of Race and Crime: The Role of Racial Stereotypes
 
Jon Hurwitz and Mark Peffley
American Journal of Political Science
Vol. 41, No. 2 (Apr., 1997), pp. 375-401
Published by: Midwest Political Science Association


#29 Yosh

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 08:16 AM

they are not simply "called" bad neighborhoods. what you are talking about are neighborhoods where crime is far more common. they are what they are. i'm not sure what point you're making, but it is a fact that low income, high minority neighborhoods are the ones where crime is rampant. is crime so common there because of minorities, or because of the effect of poverty on them? Debatable, but also not very relevant to this issue. If I'm not mistaken, the gated community in which TM was killed was not considered a "bad neighborhood".

 

You can define vigilantism, but you fail to understand it. What is taking the law into your own hands? GZ didn't - he did nothing illegal, nothing outside his rights as a citizen. When the violence occured, it was initiated by TM and GZ acted, as found in a police investigation and declared in court - in self defense.

 

In fact, the definition for the term is pretty broad and if we look at the actual definition in its broadest scope, you can say GZ is a vigilante - someone who takes the responsibilities of keeping the peace into his own hands - but only so much as ANY neighborhood watch captain. When you refer to him as a vigilante and use the term vigilantism, you're taking advantage of the public's narrowed use of the term in a derogatory sense. Now let me ask you, do you consider it that way? Because if so, that's the problem I have with you using the term. And you need to define exactly what he did so wrong that he deserves punishment for.

 

He was not told not to follow him. He was discouraged from following him. Exact quote: "We don't need you to do that." 

 

Your series of events cuts a lot of important things out, especially GZ's repeated (with multiple witnesses) pleas for "help" before finally resorting to using his weapon.


Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

NITRO/DURF/THUNK/LUNE/SEH/MIDIAN/DRSEXSTIX/JARLAXLE/KALEIDO/YOSHIQUACK/OMEGABLASTER/BYOXXYL

MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#30 DarkNight

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:54 PM

Also to clarify something, GZ was talking to a 911 dispacter which is not a cop, and suggested him to not follow.
The reason he even did profiling from before was because of  previous break-ins. Shinta you are also forgetting this fact:
Why did TM NOT CALL the police if he felt he was being harrassed? He had his cell phone called several other people between the time.

The problem is that the negative aspects of American culture are diluting people into thinking these stereotypes are potent. 

What makes someone "white" and someone "black" why is it that the teenage "black" male is one many other emulate? (and by black

I mean ghetto mentality, ain't nobody stopping me attitude). There was a story back then about a black teen being beaten to death because

he refused to enter a black gang. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE there? Why do we have this story blown out of proportion and the verdict messed up

because people were impatient about it? Media screwed up any chances for this to be a fair trial at all, just because how short of time it was between

the shooting and the trial. ALOT of evidence wasn't even ready to be used in court. This is the result of the greedy, rash, impatient, rude, I want it now-screw it later, apathetic mentality that poisons us through everything from ads to tv to internet to movies to video games EVERYTHING media that pushes stereo-types and glorification for not giving two-shits.


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