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Roads To Victory II: This Time It's Personal


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#21 Yosh

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:09 AM

skills were planned but not implemented.


Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

NITRO/DURF/THUNK/LUNE/SEH/MIDIAN/DRSEXSTIX/JARLAXLE/KALEIDO/YOSHIQUACK/OMEGABLASTER/BYOXXYL

MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#22 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:52 AM

Well shit, let's actually implement them! Trigger rates for in-combat skills will be calcd on an rng roll before each attack?

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#23 Dave

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:03 AM

I can update the calculator if I have some free time with any desired new features. I also can't remember if it had any bugs or not which needed fixing. In fact, the whole thing could probably use a rewrite...

 

Happy to do so if you guys sort your shit out and get this off the ground.



#24 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:47 AM

Thanks Dave. Would it be possible to have it optional wether it calculates the whole battle vs calculating just one round of attacks? It would make it easier for things like group missions where only one attack at a time goes through, and then PvP where the fight doesn't end until death.

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#25 DarkNight

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

Making a list, gonna go with the trainee classes (with a few created for balance) up to base and stop at advanced (so things like marksman and reaver won't exist)

I figure this is the fairest way and so that people can develop a path they want. The trainee classes will have alot of options to choose from and I am hoping to make each base class go into one of two advanced classes. Maybe we can tie skillls to certain weapons/items that are perma learned when the item is used for a number of dungeons. (sort of how FF9 pulls off learning).

 

I will be introducing crossbows as a weapon type (because there is already information for some crossbows in the wiki and expanding it seemed like a cool idea for budding trainee arhcers)


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#26 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:44 PM

Making a list, gonna go with the trainee classes (with a few created for balance) up to base and stop at advanced (so things like marksman and reaver won't exist)

nooooooooooooooooooo

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#27 DarkNight

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:15 PM

-.- are we really thinking about adding 4 tiers to this?

 

Alright, if that's what the masses want, however this won't be easy since it has to be balanced.

And some classes don't have a third tier but sure.


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#28 Yosh

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

personally my vote would be that cutting out the trainee tier makes a lot more sense than the later tiers. most people go into it knowing what they want to be, so a trainee tier that branches into base classes isn't particularly necessary, kind of just an aesthetic choice.


Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

NITRO/DURF/THUNK/LUNE/SEH/MIDIAN/DRSEXSTIX/JARLAXLE/KALEIDO/YOSHIQUACK/OMEGABLASTER/BYOXXYL

MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#29 DarkNight

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:24 PM

point taken it's alot easier to deal with the other trees consider the trainee tier discontinued.

I have a preliminary list, I basically truncated most the useless/repeating classes and added a few.

Not sure how to display it all though.


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#30 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:42 PM

Yeah I wasn't suggesting 4 tiers. I was saying no as in, no trainees. They're a niche class that is entirely unnecessary. In RD first tier units during part 3 were basically the equivalent of trainees.

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#31 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:30 AM

So basically we have

Single weapon classes:
Myrmidon - Swordmaster - Trueblade
(Sword)

Soldier - Halberdier - Sentinel
(Lance)

Fighter - Warrior - Reaver
(Axe)

Archer - Sniper - Marksman
(Bow)

Infantry/Armor classes:
Lance Knight or Bow Knight - Silver Knight - Paladin
(Lance/bow, lance + bow, lance + sword + axe + bow)

Axe Knight or Sword Knight - Gold Knight - Paladin
(Axe/Sword, axe + sword, lance + sword + axe + bow)

Armor Knight - General - Marshall
(Lance, Lance + Axe, Lance + Axe + Sword)

Troubadour - Valkyrie - Legendary Valkyrie*
(Staves, Light + Staves, Light + dark + staves)

Armor Mage - Armor Mage 2*, Armor Mage 3*
(Anima, Anima, Anima + Dark)


Flying Classes:
Pegasus Knight - Falcoknight - Seraph Knight
(lances, lances + swords, lances + swords + staves)

Dracoknight - Wyvern Rider - Wyvern Master
(Axes, Axes + Swords, Axes + Swords + Lances)


Standard Melee classes:
Samurai - Daimyo - Shogun
(Sword, Sword + Lance, Sword + Lance)

Mercenary - Hero - Vanguard
(Sword, Sword + Axe, Sword + Axe)

Thief - Rogue - Assassin
(Sword, Sword, Sword + Bow)

Pirate - Quartermaster - Captain
(Axe, Sword + Axe, Sword + Axe)


Mage classes:
Mage - Sage - Archsage
(Anima, Anima + Staves, Anima + Staves)

Monk/Priestess or Priest/Cleric - Bishop - Archbishop
(Light or Staves, Light + Staves, Light + Staves)

Shaman - Druid - Warlock
(Dark, Dark + Staves, Dark + Staves)

Any other classes we wanna see? If not, let's start think of skills.

Also: Since there's no movement, flying units will not be weak to bows.
Also: the armored Mage class will have very low base res and res growth, essentially reflecting the defensive stats of Melee armored units.

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#32 DarkNight

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:08 AM

So we are going the straight route not the branched routes?

 

I have a suggestion for Axes

Brigand - Barbarian - Beserker

(a more crit type rather than a bulk type warrior)

 

I would change armored mage for dark magic + dark magic + dark/anima magic

Just seems different.

 

Sword/anima tome combo

Tactician-Strategist- Trickster

Moderate stats, jack of all trade master of none.

 

Axe/staves combo

Acolyte- War Monk/War Cleric- Crusader

(staves, Staves/Axes, Staves/Axes)


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#33 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:25 AM

I like it. All of it. Maybe instead of using Trickster, we go Tactician - Strategist - Grandmaster or something like that. Maybe not strategist, but like some middle tier class for it

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#34 DarkNight

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:47 AM

That works because I didn't know exactly how to deal with a good word for the final class.

How about this: Bows have a higher hit chance against flying units possibly, flying has a better hit change against mounted and mounted against bow units?

Also instead of map things how about the use of distance markers? So Someone distance 1 from you would be in melee range, distance 2 would be in archer range, distance 3 be out of range. Making the max distance 3 would also help reduce abuse of running away, and being cornered. And you spend a move action lowering your range against the group on the battle field. It's a lot more simplistic than using a map but warrants some tactics like having to go through a bruiser to get to an archer, unless you use a ranged weapon. Moving out of range to use and item to heal and what not. And each unit have a move of 1 or 2.

Units on foot would have 1 movement.

Mounted units would have 2 movement

 

Here's a few skill ideas:

Hide: (Thief skill tree) When in a group, enemies have a higher chance to ignore you and attack another party member.

Provoke: When in a group, enemies have a higher chance to target you over an ally member.

Guard: (Knight skill trees) Raises an ally's defense using a quarter of your defense stat.

Magic Circle: (Staves/Light) Raises an ally's resistance using a quarter of your res stat.

Risky Gambit (Axe classes) Increases damage but lowers evasion/def for a round.

Canto (mounted classes) Can move before and after attacking (but not more than total move)

 

 

Edit:
Someone mentioned support classes
Dancer/Bard -> Minstrel -> Maestro

(Perform, Perform, Perform/staff)

 

Encourage (Perform) Target Ally's speed is increased for one round.

 

 

Oh another theif type branch

Theif -> Trickster -> Charltan

(Sword, Sword/Perform, Sword/Perform)

 

 

Another Edit:

two weapon groups,

Daggers - high crit chance lower damage lighter Mt. than swords

Crossbows - able to attack enemies 1 distance away, requires move actions to reload.

 

thoughts? if yes I have a few adjustments to suggest to Krevin's original list


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#35 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:54 PM

That works because I didn't know exactly how to deal with a good word for the final class.
How about this: Bows have a higher hit chance against flying units possibly, flying has a better hit change against mounted and mounted against bow units?
This really just becomes an obnoxious added amount of work for whoever is calculating battles. There's no reason to add complicated mechanics like that.

Also instead of map things how about the use of distance markers? So Someone distance 1 from you would be in melee range, distance 2 would be in archer range, distance 3 be out of range. Making the max distance 3 would also help reduce abuse of running away, and being cornered. And you spend a move action lowering your range against the group on the battle field. It's a lot more simplistic than using a map but warrants some tactics like having to go through a bruiser to get to an archer, unless you use a ranged weapon. Moving out of range to use and item to heal and what not. And each unit have a move of 1 or 2.
Units on foot would have 1 movement.
Mounted units would have 2 movement
Well... No. I wish the old RtV forum was still up or something so I could better show you the way it played, because it was more then fine without a map or movement. Adding this, once again, is just complex mechanics that only become an issue for game calculators. I do plan on having longbow as a weapon though, where when it's equipped you don't cause or receive counter attacks. But adding in movement and map mechanics is just not happening.
 
Here's a few skill ideas:
Hide: (Thief skill tree) When in a group, enemies have a higher chance to ignore you and attack another party member.
Provoke: When in a group, enemies have a higher chance to target you over an ally member.
I like these if you can think of a good way to calculate them. As it stands, when a party fights an enemy, the enemy's target is selected at random by just assigning a number to each unit, and generating a random number out if those via random.org

Guard: (Knight skill trees) Raises an ally's defense using a quarter of your defense stat.
Magic Circle: (Staves/Light) Raises an ally's resistance using a quarter of your res stat.
I feel like you're doing a lot of skills based on group fighting, but most of the game is solo missions.
Risky Gambit (Axe classes) Increases damage but lowers evasion/def for a round.
I like this.
Canto (mounted classes) Can move before and after attacking (but not more than total move)
again, we're not implementing movement.
 
Edit:
Someone mentioned support classes
Dancer/Bard -> Minstrel -> Maestro
(Perform, Perform, Perform/staff)
 
Encourage (Perform) Target Ally's speed is increased for one round.
 
 
Oh another theif type branch
Theif -> Trickster -> Charltan
(Sword, Sword/Perform, Sword/Perform)
 
 
Another Edit:
two weapon groups,
Daggers - high crit chance lower damage lighter Mt. than swords
Crossbows - able to attack enemies 1 distance away, requires move actions to reload.
 
thoughts? if yes I have a few adjustments to suggest to Krevin's original list
We could try adding in some sort of bard class, but because there isn't a map, and because neither player's turn really ends ever, the standard "dance so you can move again" falls through. But if there were enough good dances/songs thought up it could be a cool support class. Idk if anybody would actually want to be one though.

Daggers I feel fit better as just a subsidiary of swords. There will probably be a collection of them, the higher level ones being thief exclusive. But yeah there will be daggers. I think there will be one made specifically for Assassins that will be like +50 crit but has 0 Mt.

Crossbows, like I mentioned earlier, there won't be a movement aspect to the game. I am sort of torn with the concept though, of a weapon with ridiculously high mt but doesn't use the user's Str stat. Part of me likes it part of me doesn't.

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#36 DarkNight

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:51 PM

Ah I see, well it seems weird to have mounted units in a movement-less game. would the flying-mounted-bow triangle at least make sense?

I'll try to think of a skill for the mounted/flying not movement based.

Bards didn't just grant movement no? they granted extra attacks. Someone earlier was asking about support classes so I decided to make a few for

ideas. granting bonuses to speed could also be a thing the bard does since I am assuming double attacks and evasion will still be prevalent, as well as might on weapons.

 

Are the magic and weapon triangles coded into the calculator already?

 

Ah so who's attacked is based on random, well maybe provoke and hide would add remove temporary numbers.

Lets say there are 3 people, one uses provoke and adds a temporary 4th person. Now the random die is more likely to select the person who provoked. This would become more effective when there are less people, which makes sense because it's easier to protect another person over two or three.

 

Hide would do the opposite. if there are three people and one uses hide the two other people would be assigned a 2nd number. So now the other two people (now 4 and 5 as well as 1 and 2) are more likely to be targeted. And it would make sense because the more people there are the easier it would be to hide.


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#37 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:15 PM

Also, skills!
My idea is, there will be a small selection of non-class-specific skills you can choose from during character creation, and there will be skills sold in shops and found during quests that your character will gain, but otherwise your character just gains a skill each time they enter into a class.

Myrmidon - Swordmaster - Trueblade
Crit +5 - Crit +15 - Astra
Crit bonuses do indeed stack.
Astra could be identical to how it is in FE13 (and iirc that's how it is in other FEs as well) where it strikes 5 times at half damage.

Soldier - Halberdier - Sentinel
Crit +5 - Crit +15 - Impale
Impale: Triple's user's Str, and reduces enemy's Def to 0, for a single attack.

Axe Crit class (I liked NRXs names but too lazy to scroll and find them)
Crit +5 - Crit +15 - Berserk Mode
Berserk mode: When HP drops below 33%, +70 Crit

Archer - Sniper - Marksman
Crit +5 - Crit +15 - Deadeye
Deadeye: Triples damage, enemy cannot counterattack this round or the next two times he is attacked, and cannot declare attacks for an allotted duration of time that we will figure out before the game starts.

Infantry/Armor classes:
Lance Knight, Sword Knight, Axe Knight, or Bow Knight - Silver Knight or Gold Knight - Paladin
Defender - Counter - Sol
Defender: Small % chance when a party member is attacked, this unit will block and take 1/2 damage.
Counter: When this unit receives damage, % chance that 1/4th the damage will be recoiled to the enemy
Sol: Triple damage, and user recovers HP equal to damage dealt

Armor Knight - General - Marshall
Guard - Heavy Shield - Perfect Shield
Guard: Trigger command: Ally unit gains Def equal to a quarter of users Def
Heavy Shield: High % chance of taking 1/2 damage from physical attacks
Perfect Shield: % chance of taking no damage from an attack

Troubadour - Valkyrie - Legendary Valkyrie*
Heal Share - Crit +10 - Divine Judgment
Heal Share: When using healing staves, user gains HP equal to 1/4th of HP gained by target
Divine Judgment: Triple damage, enemy deals half damage the next 3 times it attacks

Armor Mage - Armor Mage 2*, Armor Mage 3*
Guard - Heavy Shield - Perfect Shield
Guard: Trigger command: Ally unit gains Def equal to a quarter of users Def
Heavy Shield: High % chance of taking 1/2 damage from physical attacks
Perfect Shield: % chance of taking no damage from an attack
Or something different idk

Flying Classes:
Pegasus Knight - Falcoknight - Seraph Knight
Miracle - Blessing - Stun
Miracle: small % chance that if an attack would cause lethal damage, user retains 1 HP
Blessing: Restores 25% of HP after combat when a counterattack is successfully made by user.
Stun: triple damage, enemy cannot counterattack the next three attacks.

Dracoknight - Wyvern Rider - Wyvern Master
Bloodlust - Dragonshield - Stun
Bloodlust: Small % chance of dealing bonus damage equal to target's level
Dragonshield: Enemy counterattacks deal 25% less damage to user
Stun: triple damage, enemy cannot counterattack the next three attacks.

Standard Melee classes:
Samurai - Daimyo - Shogun
Gekokujo - Bôsen - Daisho Mastery
Gekokujo (The low overcome the high) : Gains Str and Crit bonuses when fighting an enemy of a higher level
Bôsen (A defensive battle) : Gains bonus Str, Spd, Skl, and Def when targeted for an enemy attack
Daisho Mastery: attacks with two consecutive attacks at double strength.

Mercenary - Hero - Vanguard
Hit +10 - Cancel - Aether
Cancel: Small % chance to negate enemy counterattack
Aether: Hits two consecutive times. First hit heals user equal to damage dealt, second hit reduces enemy def to 0 for the attack.

Thief - Rogue - Assassin
Steal - Crit +10 - Lethality
Steal: small % chance of gaining gold when an attack is successful
Lethality: Chance of dealing fatal damage to an enemy (Trigger rate = half Crit %)

Pirate - Quartermaster - Captain
Pillage! - Mutiny! - Summon Kraken!
Pillage!: small % chance of gaining gold when an attack is successful
Mutiny!: Stat bonuses when no party members are present (Excluding Kraken)
Summon Kraken!: % chance, when selected for an attack to summon Kraken into user's party. Kraken is not controlled by player, but rather selects the same attack target as player. Kraken has 1 HP, 0 Def and 0 Res but colossal amounts of Str, Spd, and Skl.


I'll get to Mage classes later.

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#38 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:23 PM

Ah I see, well it seems weird to have mounted units in a movement-less game. would the flying-mounted-bow triangle at least make sense?
It's entirely for aesthetics.

I'll try to think of a skill for the mounted/flying not movement based.
If you don't come up with anything, we can use the stuff from the post I just made. I actually really like the horseback skills I put together.

Bards didn't just grant movement no? they granted extra attacks. Someone earlier was asking about support classes so I decided to make a few for
ideas. granting bonuses to speed could also be a thing the bard does since I am assuming double attacks and evasion will still be prevalent, as well as might on weapons.
Double attacks and evasion are still a thing. Bard's first song might be one that gives +Spd to sort of give off that classic feel of bards giving extra attacks.
 
Are the magic and weapon triangles coded into the calculator already?
No, iirc we didn't use them? Or we had to make the adjustments by hand? I can't remember.
 
Ah so who's attacked is based on random, well maybe provoke and hide would add remove temporary numbers.
Lets say there are 3 people, one uses provoke and adds a temporary 4th person. Now the random die is more likely to select the person who provoked. This would become more effective when there are less people, which makes sense because it's easier to protect another person over two or three.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking for provoke. That's the easier one to work with for sure.
 
Hide would do the opposite. if there are three people and one uses hide the two other people would be assigned a 2nd number. So now the other two people (now 4 and 5 as well as 1 and 2) are more likely to be targeted. And it would make sense because the more people there are the easier it would be to hide.
that makes sense too I suppose. I think Provoke and Hide will probably be options for the class non-specific starting skills you can choose from.

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#39 Yosh

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:26 PM

What's up with Gold and Silver knight coming before Paladin? It's the reverse.

 

Not the biggest fan of the new samurai set... I think it's tolerable but could use a few edits. For one, I'd rename it to Ronin>Samurai>Warlord(or Daimyo). Also, I think the skillset needs distinguishing from the swordmasters. Also since this is western, we use translated names. We should endeavor to fit the theme by using translated names for skills, even though the class's theme is foreign. So...

 

Samurai - Daimyo - Shogun
Gekokujo - Bôsen - Daisho Mastery
Gekokujo (The low overcome the high) : Gains Str and Crit bonuses when fighting an enemy of a higher level
Bôsen (A defensive battle) : Gains bonus Str, Spd, Skl, and Def when targeted for an enemy attack
Daisho Mastery: attacks with two consecutive attacks at double strength. 

 

I would change to:

 

Ronin - Samurai - Daimyo

Overwhelm - Battle Flow - Lunar Sword

Overwhelm: Gains Str and Def bonuses when facing an enemy of higher level.

Battle Flow: Gains bonus Str, Res, Skl and Lck bonuses when targeted by an enemy attack.

Lunar Sword: Strikes the enemy twice, bypassing their Def stat completely.


Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

NITRO/DURF/THUNK/LUNE/SEH/MIDIAN/DRSEXSTIX/JARLAXLE/KALEIDO/YOSHIQUACK/OMEGABLASTER/BYOXXYL

MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#40 DarkNight

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 09:46 PM

Horsemanship (mounted unit skill) has a chance to increase evasion and damage against an opponent for an attack.

Flying Dive (flying mounted skill) has a chance to increase accuracy and damage against an opponent for attack.

 

For the armored mage guy

Defensive Crest: Has a percentage chance to deal 1/4 magic damage against a target that hit user.

Aegis: % Chance of increasing an allie's def stat when ally is hit and ally gains bonus damage on next attack equal to 1/4 magic damage of user.

Arcane Riptose: Has a chance of dealing half the damage unit would receive as magic damage to attacker.


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