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#461 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:03 AM

Dope! I'll post my FC in a little, I'm not near my Switch rn. 

 

Yeah, it definitely takes a little time to recalibrate from 4 or Melee over to Ultimate. There are some Melee players that are trying to play both competitively right now and that's wild to me. I opened up Melee to test out a controller yesterday and it just feels so foreign now. The menu feels TOO responsive, and I've sorta gotten used to the input lag of Ultimate so it felt like everything I was doing was happening a few frames earlier than I wanted it to. But honestly I'm not 100% sure I'll ever play Melee again. Nothing against it, Melee is an amazing game and I loved it while it lasted, but before Ultimate I had a reason to play Melee. Now I don't see any reason to play Melee when I could instead be playing Ultimate. But if I ever lose interest in Ultimate, Melee is still there. I just... don't currently see any reason for Ultimate to end up in the situation that Brawl or S4 ended up in. 

 

 

Also, Smash Conference United happened this weekend, which may have been a precursor to Genesis. It wasn't quite on the calibur of Genesis, with only 361 entrants for Ultimate, but it did have a lot of big names, including Zero, who hadn't played Ultimate in tournament yet. So here are some cool things about the tournament:

1. MKLeo took first, without losing a set, playing almost all Ike (not sure about pools, but in top 48 he only played 2 games that weren't as Ike, they were as Richter against 8BitMan's ROB, and he lost those games so he switched back to Ike). 

2. Samsora had one of the sickest losers bracket runs I've ever seen (and inarguably the sickest losers bracket run so far in Ultimate), dropping into losers bracket during pools, then going on to win 9 straight sets, including a 3-0 over Zero, a 3-0 over Dabuz, a 3-1 over MVD, and a 3-2 over Salem. Let me reiterate: Samsora beat Zero 3-0. Samsora was also sooooo close to getting the reset in Grand Finals over MKLeo. 

3. Zero got 9th, losing to Samsora and MuteAce. Both of them are Peach mains. Coincidence? Also, Zero ended up playing a lot of Diddy, which didn't work out too well because Diddy's S4 kit got completely gutted, so if there are any redeeming qualities to this character, they're still a mystery rn. But Zero did have a lot of success with Cloud. 

4. Several lesser known names proved that the strong players from Smash 4 aren't nearly as dominant over this meta. MuteAce, Myran, Morpheus, and 8BitMan all had very impressive runs and very strong showings, with only 2 of them having ever made PGR (Myran was 39th on PGR v3, and 8BitMan was 47th on PGR v1). Definitely expect to see some new names in the top meta of Ultimate that weren't in the top meta of S4.

5. As far as I can tell, there were no Inkling players in top 48 (definitely none in winners side). I'm starting to feel more and more like Inkling isn't actually a top tier character. And if they are, they definitely aren't number one. Right now I feel like it's Peach/Daisy and Pichu competing for the number one spot. Pichu having confirms into ftilt and lightning loops into spike make him the most consistent character at converting small wins in neutral into a stock (at least at this point in the meta, I'm sure that will change eventually) but also Pichu's weight + self damage make him a high risk character that can lose stocks just as easily as he takes them. Peach is a more stable pick that still has the tools to be potentially the best character in the game rn, with those GIGANTIC combos, amazing edge guard tools, best microspacing in the game (because float), noncommittal neutral tools, great recovery (click), pretty good projectile in the form of turnips, good kill options with fair and bthrow, light enough weight to escape a lot of combos but not so light that she dies easily, great spacing tool in FC bair, amazing ledge trapping with float nair... I could go on. Her kit is very good, and more than anything she doesn't have many (any?) real flaws. In any aspect of the game she is at least ~GOOD ENOUGH~ to compete at top level, even in the areas where she doesn't necessarily excel, making her a very consistent pick (as opposed to Pichu, who is a higher risk higher reward pick). 

 

 

Anyways, Genesis is a little less than 4 weeks away, and it's already up to 1400 entrants for Ultimate and 800 entrants for Melee. I think Ultimate could break 2k entrants. I'm super stoked to watch it. I'll probably go next year (assuming it happens again next year). My prediction:

1. Samsora will win Genesis. I know he's not considered the favor to win, but I'm just calling it right now.

2. One of the Swedish Melee gods (probably Armada) will do really well, like 5th place or better, and the other (probably Leffen) will do good enough to make a statement, but not amazing (like 17th or 25th). This is another gut prediction.

3. I'm not sure if Zero is entering, but I think that if he does he'll make top 4. I don't think he's quite in the dominant position that he held in S4 and Brawl, but he's still a clutch master with the best track record of any player of any Smash game, and I think he'd put on a good performance for Genesis. 

4. I'm expecting a few Melee players to do really well in Ultimate if they enter it at Ultimate. I know Plup has been grinding hard on stream all the time, and a lot of the MDVA Melee players (Zain, Llod, Rishi, Junebug, etc.) have done really well in other Smash games, so I'm excited to see what they bring to Ultimate. I could see any of those players going on a really strong run through the Ultimate bracket.

5. I have no idea what's gonna happen in Melee. It is Genesis, so Mango might finally get his 3peat. I hope he does, I'm not sure Melee needs to stay alive now that Ultimate is out, so Mango getting his Genesis 3peat would be a good ending to the Melee storyline.


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#462 Maverick

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:44 AM

Peach/Daisy is a monster. However, I have  feeling that they're going to be hit with one of the first major nerfs. Their float isn't considered to be a short hop by the game no matter how low you initiate float, so instead of low floating aerials getting hit with the shorthop damage nerf, they get to deal full damage with instant aerials. So less of a nerf, but mostly just a bugfix actually. Literally had the exact same thing happen with Smash 4 at launch, so I don't understand how it got missed (just encourages my theory of this game being a little rushed in development to make Holiday 2019 sales).

 

However, this isn't going to take away any of the other amazing tools she has. Unless they massively nerf her aerial frame data, Peach is pretty much always going to be an amazing character.

 

 

Seems like a lot of sleepers and late-game killers from Smash 4 are making a big splash in Ult. Glad to see fresh faces making waves. However, I suspect that the further we get into the game, the more we're going to see the mainstays like Zero and Nairo start to catch up. A lot of the big names from Ult have chosen to take advantage of the new game hype to boost their streams and youtube channels, instead of grinding hard on hitting top level play in the game. I respect that call, these guys have to make a living and new game hype is an excellent way to get a boost, but it's definitely showing from the both of them, they're behind their contemporaries despite the fact that we know they have the ability to keep up.

 

 

 

 

More character observations:

 

Incineroar is so much fun for me man. Definitely a mid-tier, but totally viable just because of the absurd kill power. If you play him like a traditional grappler in a 2D fighter, then he's got mad potential. It's all about conditioning and mindgames. He's cheeseier than a tray of nachos, but that's the key. Watch any pro SFV player using Zangief or Abigail and it's a similar idea. It's all about grimey scummy plays. Once you get them figured out and conditioned the way you want, you just make the reads. He only needs to win neutral like 3 times for the stock, but winning neutral requires some serious Galaxy Brain plays.

 

He's not a "great" character, but he's definitely MY kind of character. I'll probably never perform incredibly well with Incineroar, but I'll always have fun.

 

Grapplers 4 lyfe

 

 

I can't seem to get into Pikachu. This is the first Smash title in history where Pika didn't immediately feel right to me, and it's a little sad. I want to play Pika and I'll keep trying, but for right now, I'm just not feeling it.

 

 

Marth is not very good. Which makes me very sad. However Lucina is fine, and for the matchups where swordies have a major advantage, she'll be my go to. But I loved Smash 4 Marth so much, it's hard to let him go for a character that I just really dislike design-wise.

 

 

Dk's cargo stage-spike confirm is not much of a confirm anymore. People have already caught on, and you're guaranteed they'll tech it, and with Aerial Spinning Kong being absolute shit, you're in a bad position. (Unless you're online, where lag literally makes this broken AF).

 

HOWEVER- Run off cargo down-throw is nearly guarabteed to kill past 100%, and for your Chrom's/Ike's/Cloud's it guarantees the stock around 60% if you can mixup their DI.

 

And herin lies the grappler mindgame that I talked about there with Incin. Offstage cargo really shines when you start throwing in directions no one expects, and I live for that. Hard reads with severe consequences.

 

It's not a great strategy for winning consistently, but it's my formula for fun. I've pretty much given up on the idea of being "Amazing" in Ultimate. My life doesn't allow me the time to dedicate to hours of play or travelling to tournaments anymore, so I'm just in it for fun.

 

 

Palu is a sick character, and she's definitely going to be one of my secondaries.

 

 

Link is still fun as hell and the more people discover remote bomb shenanigans, the better he gets.

 

 

 

 

Current Characters in as close to an order as I can come up with:

 

Incineroar

 

DK

 

Link

 

Mewtwo -Almost untouched from Smash 4, but one of the few unchanged that gets a HUGE benefit from the ability to act out of dash. His tilts are still the best combo starters in the game.

 

Zelda- Mad buffed from Smash 4 but still definitely mid/low tier. She's a hell of a lot of fun though, and her new Phantom has awesome setups and kills super consistently now.

 

Palutena

 

Lucina/Marth

 

 

 

 

 

Note: I would love to hop online and play with you guys, but I'm currently living at home waiting for everything to be ready for my new job, and the internet is ASS at my parent's house so it's not worth it. Add me anyway, and hopefully my new place will have a good enough connection to play once I get moved in.

 

Friend Code: SW-3389-3435-7207


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#463 Naya

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:28 AM

Yeah I know haven't played regularly since Melee, and I played a bit of Brawl but not nearly as much. But I've already said all that here I think

Anyways, as I've said before, I'm way out of practice and not some pro player or anywhere close, but if anyone wants to add me on Switch, feel free.
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#464 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:31 AM

A friend and I grinded for about 8 hours straight today, and I decided about an hour in to try Palu, because I hadn't really messed around with her since day one. I ended up not switching off of her for the rest of the day. I found my main. She fits my playstyle really well, which is less about converting individual hits and more about winning neutral and pushing your advantage for a kill. I like that she's so efficient at turtling, not just by sitting behind walls of projectiles like Richter but also by simply having the tools to beat a lot of approaches and create empty pressure to hold her position. Also, if a player isn't trying to rush you down, explosive flame can force them in for a punish, which is pretty fun. Her ledgeguarding tools are pretty solid, bair beats almost everything, dair has a surprisingly big hitbox for the spike, and characters with worse recoveries can get dragged down with nair. But more than anything, she's extremely safe when she jumps out for her edge guards, and I've been noticing that people get really sloppy when you try to edge guard them, because S4 players aren't used to having their recoveries challenged so much. Also, uair is insane. It can catch so many characters out of bad options, and air dodging is such a huge risk in this game that you can force an air dodge with uair and then punish them afterwards. I've also been experimenting with using the wind tunnel effect of her fsmash to force recoveries to go past ledge instead of snapping it. I pulled it off twice in one game against my friend's Pit, where his up B wouldn't snap ledge because I pushed him away, and then you're able to catch the landing of the up B. It's pretty neat. 

I'm not sure how viable it will be to play only one character, so I'm planning on keeping some secondaries alive still, especially in case Palu gets nerfed, but I am gonna try to play all Palu for the time being. But I have K Rool, Cloud, Ike, Inkling, and Yoshi all in my back pocket if I ever need them, and my Daisy is in a good enough spot that I can make the switch to being a Daisy main if I ever feel the need to main her, but I would definitely want to spend more time in the lab with her before I brought her out in tournament. 

I only see a few matchups being problematic for Palu. Chrom, Roy, and Little Mac all can be a bit rough, but I think that creating empty pressure and sticking to really defensive movement options until you can find small openings can be really useful. 

 

 

 

As for top players: It seems like several top players are in the bind that Zero is in, where competing in tournaments is financially nonviable. Leffen mentioned on stream today that entering tournaments ends up costing him a lot of money because of how many subs he loses, and how much more money he could make if he stayed home and streamed the whole time. and how last year he entered roughly 50 tournaments, but this year it's looking like he'll only be able to go to supermajors like Genesis. Zero made a twitlonger about the same issue, and I've heard multiple other top players speak on the issue. The big problem I'm worried about is that these top players may have their platforms hindered by a lessened performance. Zero placing 9th at his first tournament back isn't helping his brand, but if he wanted to put in the work to reclaim his throne, he wouldn't be able to stream as consistently, which would also hurt his brand. I'm interested to see how it plays out, there's going to have to be some sort of compromise that the top players are going to have to make. 


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#465 Naya

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:39 AM

I really wanna try Palutena, I tried her the one time I played Smash 4 but really didn't play that game at all afterwards. I feel like I'll like her, but I still haven't unlocked everyone, her included. As of now for a way out of practice Smash player who isn't used to the new games, I still play best with Samus/Dark Samus. Haven't found anyone I'm equally good with yet. I have won a couple online matches with Wii Fit Trainer lol, but I wouldn't call myself good with her.

Edit: I unlocked Palutena, but I don't know that she's a good option either. This is getting really annoying. I mean I'm far from pro level or as good as you guys probably are. But as far as my own personal skill is involved, I'm sooo good with Samus and Dark Samus. But that's it, I can't really find anyone else I can control and know half as well. I mean sure I could use like maybe Pichu just as easily, or I could with a little bit of extra practice(he doesn't feel quite the same in any form) decide to go with one of the Link options. But that's not me like using someone I really like character design and personality wise or whatever and having fun with them, trying someone new. Pichu is just easy to use and Link is just yet another classic I have experience with. I wanted to find someone new and cool who I could be decent with and have as an extra main. Dark Samus is sorta new, but not really, she's basically just Samus with a cooler design. I might have to just pick someone I'm okay-ish with and practice a ton more with them over time. I'm not sure though. Maybe I should just give in and go with Dark Samus since I have no problem using her.

Edit 2: I messed around more in training & as far as characters go who I can control as smoothly as Samus and who don't have skills I dislike, Duck Hunt & Ridley could be decent alts. But at the same time, I likely still need practice to know them as well as I do Samus and much like Pichu, I kinda also feel like they're easy picks anyone could control easily. So I don't know.

#466 wwwwwwwwwhats up youtube

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:46 AM

I'm having second thoughts about Palutena now. She's really fun when she's not getting rushed down, but some characters just bully her to hard for her to play. Specifically Little Mac made me realize that she has faults, but it's also apparent against Chrom, Inkling, and Pika. Side note: Little Mac is actually pretty solid . So I'm experimenting with other characters, since I don't think solo maining Palu is a great idea. I'm back to thinking that I won't really pin down a main for at least a couple months. But I am really digging the defensive characters that aren't campy, like Palutena, ROB, and Snake. My playstyle has definitely shifted over the past couple years, and I'm realizing that the super aggressive playstyle I used to love isn't really the best option for me these days. So for now, Palutena, ROB, and Snake are the characters I think I'm gonna hone in on. But idk. I'll probably end up maining a DLC character.


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#467 Scuiriot

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:15 PM

Well, iirc, ROB has a 0 to Death combo so... as does Rosalina and MegaMan...

 

I'm haven't gotten much chance to play since the other week, been to busy/sick, though I did play with this chick and she's super competitive (though not good/great at the game yet) it wasn't her first time playing the game and she wasn't just running around doing nothing killing herself like most people who've never really played... but she was getting mad at herself for dying at all, i found it super cute, but we ended up having to stop playing cuz she was getting too upset at it. She seemingly expected herself to be instantly good at the game, and like Idk exactly how good she expected to be, but hopefully I can get her to work at it, both getting better at the game and not being THAT competitive...


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Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:45 PM

ROB's zero to death isn't a true combo from what I've heard. But his punish game with a gyro in hand is nuts. 

ROB always seems like top tier in the early meta, so idk if he'll still be a good pick as the meta develops? But also I'm still super not sure if he's who I want to main. Out of 74 characters, there are like 60 that interest me, but none that I like enough to actually commit to. Hoping for a DLC character to save me from this indecisiveness lol


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#469 Scuiriot

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:05 PM

IDK about Robs, but MegaMan's works at any % and so does Rose iirc, but they are Very Macro heavy.

 

Was really impressed with Salem's Link, and it really made me want to grind out and lab him a lot more, since I think He'd be a good back up/main with Cloud in the other slot.


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Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:41 PM

Megaman's is true any percent but doesn't guarantee a kill. But can infinite to 999%, so it's basically wobbling. Plus Megaman's kit is honestly amazing besides the infinite, so I think he's top tier for sure right now. Maybe top 5 on paper, but nobody is really landing the infinite, and without it he's just a high tier, maybe bordering on top tier but it's too early to tell.

I haven't heard too many details about Rosa's but AFAIK it's effectively the same as waveshining from Melee. Not sure if it leads into a kill confirm, but it definitely gets them off stage and leads to an edge guard. The problem is that everything else about Rosa is pretty lackluster in this game, so it's not really worth playing her. I think she might be bottom 5 right now tbh

 

Vanilla Link is amazing in this game. Remote bombs are an extremely effective tool, and his kit is diverse enough that he becomes a really consistent character with few truly bad matchups. He can zone with projectiles, he can outspace with a sword, and he can rush down with things like nair, so he doesn't get locked into an archetype the way that most of the cast does, which gives him a better matchup spread. I think Link + Cloud sounds like a really strong combination. I also think that solo maining either character could be a really good call, they both seem top tier right now IMO. 

The only Salem footage I've watched so far was Salem vs Samsora at SC United, and Salem almost ended Samsora's run, so I should watch more of him, because that is really impressive. Plus getting third at what could be considered the most stacked tournament so far in Ultimate is a nice start. Salem is definitely looking promising for the Ultimate meta. 


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#471 Scuiriot

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:09 PM

My only issue is that... it's Salem... His beef and outbreak with Leffen is ludicrous and laughable. It definitely holds a negative candle on him very heavily. It was off a harmless post about who Sonic Fox was going to main... and it then became those two going nuts about stupid shit.


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Posted 10 January 2019 - 11:15 PM

Oh, yeah, Salem is a complete douche for all of that "years of research" bullshit. But whatever, it's been a while since Smash has had fun beef like this, and it'll make for a really fun Salty Suite between Leffen and Salem. 

Also kind of ironic that Salem immediately turned himself into the first villain of Ultimate by attacking Leffen, after Leffen spent so much of his melee career as the villain.


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#473 Scuiriot

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:41 PM

Yea, That's true, Salem took the EARLY Villain role. I just think the way it came about is 100% asinine and SonicFox is the one to blame :P.

 

I just haven't had much time to really sit down and grind in this game, too many other things going on currently with life and such. But watching Salem's games he didn't really do anything I haven't done besides just doing it all WAY better. The only thing I haven't been able to do is self bomb for recovery, but I have tried a few times. OH, and I don't Zair catch, but that is something I've done way back in Melee with Yink back in the good ol' days.


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Wolff should've been reclassed to squirrel.


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Posted 11 January 2019 - 07:34 PM

Yeah, vanilla Link is one of the less technical characters at top level, the difference between Salem and most Link players is more on a largescale level of game sense, strong reads, etc., but the only thing I've seen him do on a technical level that is worth going into training mode for is z-drop aerials. Compared to, say, Daisy or Pichu, Link is definitely not a technical character. 

 

 

Anyways, I went to the most poorly run tournament I've ever been to last night. It was free entry, which is the only reason that the event didn't turn into a massive riot, but it was terrible. 179 entrants tucked into a tiny corner of the venue that had space enough for like 60 people. The whole tournament was run on 12 setups, but 3 of them were unused most of the night because they were out of the TO's line of sight. The TO was trying to call matches without a megaphone, so you could barely hear him, so a lot of entrants got DQ'd because they couldn't hear their match being called, plus a lot of people ended up leaving, which led to more DQs. There was a player who got 9th without winning a single game, because all of his opponents got DQ'd. On top of all of it, about an hour in (while I was playing my first match), they announced that they were changing from a double elimination bracket to a single elimination bracket in the interest of time. Were that the only issue, I wouldn't be too upset, because it was a free event and there obviously were way too many people there and the event was going to take forever, but on top of everything else, especially with a fourth of the setups not even being used for most of the tournament, it was just a poor move on the TO's part. 

Anyways, I won my first set (Played Palu game 1, bodied the dude's Pokemon Trainer. He switched to Cloud game 2 and barely edged out a win over my Palu, then game 3 I went K Rool and 3-stocked his Cloud). Then I waited around for another hour and a half, and I checked the bracket, the game that I was waiting on still hadn't been reported 2 and a half hours after the tournament started, even though it was a round 2 game. So I went home. I checked the bracket online before I went to bed and I didn't get DQ'd from my set until about 45 minutes after I had left. Whack.


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#475 Scuiriot

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:18 PM

Damn, sorry to hear about the shitty tournament, those are never fun.

 

 

 

I really need to pick a day and make it a smash day.


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Wolff should've been reclassed to squirrel.


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Posted 15 January 2019 - 03:21 AM

Somebody found some new Melee tech. It isn't that important or impressive (the only characters that benefit from it are ganon, roy, and bowser, who are all trash in that game) but the name... 

They named it Koopabackdashwaveslide Hoverwalkmoonland, which is the most ridiculous name I've ever heard. Maybe it's time for Melee to die. They're running out of names for tech.


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#477 Scuiriot

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 04:56 PM

That name though... That's the real highlight. Only working on a few characters noticeably - check, really nothing to write home about - check, amazingly long name for no real reason - check.


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Posted Today, 08:11 PM

Of the few characters that benefit from it, none of them become any more viable, but some Ganon players might get better combo video footage because of it. It's just the name.

 

Anyways, I'm still having a character crisis in Ultimate. All of the characters I like seem to have enough bad matchups that I can't solo main any of them, and at this early stage of the metagame I don't want to have secondaries, I wanna sit down with one character and lab everything out, figure out bad matchups, etc. before I introduce a secondary. I think I'm gonna stick with Daisy, she has a ton of potential and I feel like she has the tools to cover her bad matchups pretty well. I'm sure between patches and DLC there will end up being a different character that I end up maining later in the game but for now I think my best bet might be to just lab Daisy, and practice the dtilt combos so much that I never have to think about what my follow ups are going to be. But I'm dropping K Rool for sure, I feel like he's a good character to play in like pools at EVO, where you're going to have to fight random scrubs, because he has the kind of cheese that leads to free/easy wins. But I'm not gonna beat very many good players with him since basically everything in his kit is a gimmick. 


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