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#601 Krevin

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:32 PM

Discord server: https://discordapp.com/invite/hJuSs3w

 

As of right now, I'm in a 2:00 pool for EVO. 

https://smash.gg/tou.../547680/1026945

Dynomyte is my pool threat. He's a pretty good Yoshi main, he's had some really close sets with players like Nicko and KiraFlax, so I'm definitely not sleeping on him. He also plays the same color of Yoshi as I do, so I'm not sure if I can play him in Yoshi dittos, so I'll probably stick with Bowser, although I think that might be a hard matchup for Bowser. 

 

Speaking of Bowser, Defend the North this past weekend had 437 entrants, including names like Samsora, Dabuz, Light, Marss, LingLing, Mr E, ANTi, etc. and a Bowser main named LeoN took second, getting double eliminated by Samsora but taking sooooo many names along the way. This character is insane, I'm definitely sticking with him, at least for the rest of this patch.


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#602 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:55 AM

LeoN is a killer man, he's seriously no joke.

 

 

Bowser is definitely a viable character, not solo viable, but he's got a good enough mu spread to hold his own. And like you said, Bowser rewards fundamentals and adapting to your opponent more than having a high technical ceiling. Anyone can play Bowser, but it takes the right player to win with him.


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#603 Krevin

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:00 PM

I was watching M2K's Bowser video for a little while earlier (which isn't a whole lot of analysis, mostly just him playing against Salem) and realizing why M2K shouldn't play Bowser but why I totally should. M2K tends to play characters that have a bad combo weight and useful get-off-me tools (Marth in Melee, MK in Brawl, Cloud in S4), plus his DI in all of the other games has been absolutely godlike, so he really isn't used to the concept of like, once you get hit you're just gonna keep taking damage for a while. But me? I've been getting beat up by players with strong punish games for YEARS, and one of my biggest flaws as a player has always seemed to be that a lot of the good players are just too fast for me. Bowser is perfectly fine letting a character go off on lengthy combos, because it's really hard for any character to convert those big combos into an actual kill on Bowser, so as long as I avoid the kill move, I'm fine. 

 

I think the matchups I'm worried about as Bowser are Yoshi (which is my WR2 if I win my first set), Joker, Samus/Dark Samus, Bayo, Snake, Cloud, Ken, Peach/Daisy, Olimar, and Palu. I don't know that any of those are characters that I would actually switch off of Bowser to play against, but I've got more than enough pocket secondaries. Cloud vs swords that aren't Marth clones, Pika against zoners, Pit against the low tiers that think they'll get away with me not knowing the matchup. I should be alright.


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#604 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:06 PM

Bowser v Joker is roughhh

 

Dthrow-upair drag down combos work right up to like 100% regardless of DI, and Bowser's recovery is free for Rebel's Guard, meaning you can get Arsene pretty quickly too.


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#605 Krevin

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 08:14 PM

Yeah, the two biggest problems I have with it are that all of Joker's neutral tools are safe as heck, and all of his kill options send so low that you have to deal with the guns. There are a lot of situations in most matchups where you can just strong arm your way through everything and force things to happen the way you want them, but that's less of a case in the Joker matchup. It ~might~ be Bowser's worst matchup, but it's tough to tell. I think it might be 65:35 or even 70:30.

 

Anyways, here's my pre-evo tier list. Next week I'm going to tournaments Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday to get ready for EVO, and with players coming into town early to get practice and all that before EVO, I'm hoping to get a lot of new knowledge before the tournament, plus EVO is 3500 entrants so it's bound to change the meta substantially, so I'm hoping that there are big differences in my opinion now and post-EVO.

Jl2qO6U.jpg

 

Some of the characters at the upper and lower ends of the tiers could definitely make an argument for moving up or down between the tiers. And the unordered tiers are still vaguely ordered.

 

 

Even though Snake is the top of the tier list, I don't like calling him the best character in the game. I think that all of the top tiers are so closely matched that a player using a top tier that they are more comfortable with/fits their playstyle better is going to be better than just picking a top tier that's higher on the list. But I do think that if I had to order them out from best to worst, that's the list.


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#606 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 12:12 PM

Thats a list I can mostly agree with.

 

I think Ken is a little high, even though I'm a believer now. PErsonally I put him on the lower end of High Tier rather than the upper.

 

 

I have to say that I really appreciate the balance in this game. To have a cast of nearly 80 chararcters and still have almost 60 of them be some level of viable is incredible.


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#607 Krevin

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 04:12 PM

Honestly Ken is probably the placement I feel the least confident about. He's essentially a brand new character, and nobody (including myself) seems to understand how to play against him. As he develops I could see him anywhere from top tier to mid tier, but the results so far point towards him being upper high, I think?? But honestly I know a lot less about Ken than I do about the rest of the cast, I almost left him off the list for that reason, but I know that he doesn't belong in the same tier as any of the Miis, so I didn't lol

I also see a lot of flexibility in Olimar's placing. IMO he was EASILY the best character in the game before he got nerfed. Now??? I don't know, he's definitely viable, still somewhere up there. I think Dabuz put him all the way down in mid-tier?? I don't know, it's really hard to tell with Olimar. But I think lower end of top tier or upper end of high tier seems right for him right now, from what I can tell. He still gets results so like... I don't know if the nerf was even that significant. 


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#608 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 09:24 PM

Dabuz seems salty because the nerfs were a personal attack on his success. He claims Olimar is unusable now, which is wildly untrue. I think he'd be better off sticking with him, Olimar didn't drop out of the top tier IMO.


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#609 Krevin

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 02:46 AM

Yeah, I know. The worst part is, Dabuz wasn't even the best Olimar. If anyone was being targeted, it was probably Shuton. 


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#610 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 12:50 PM

The entire community is shitting itself over Hero right now, but man honestly the character is kinda ass.

 

He has almost 0 practical combos, his aerials are all unsafe and slow, and he has absolutely no out of shield options.

 

His RNG spell mechanic can lead to some dumb jank, but like 99% of the spells lose to shield, and the act of pulling up the menu leaves him totally open. The stupid spell jank is literally the only thing good about the character.

 

People are already mad about shit that will probably never happen.


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#611 Krevin

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 11:05 PM

Hero is trash lmao

 

I've been trying to get back on the grind, EVO got me motivated. But I still don't have a main, and my list of characters I wanna play keeps growing, rather than shrinking.

Bowser is still who I'm treating as my main, but I don't want to stick with him. I like playing the super defensive turtle style sometimes, it's definitely efficient. But sometimes I just wanna go in. I don't know. I might end up sticking Bowser in the long run, he's definitely forcing me to play better, and giving me better results when I'm actually focused. But it isn't the game I want to play.

My list of possible mains right now is like....

Bowser, Pit, Pika, Sheik, Yoshi, Sonic, MK, Wario, Palutena, Inkling, Daisy, Chrom, Joker, Wolf, Snake. I could see myself committing to any of those honestly and they all feel close to being right, but none of them feel exactly right the way that Ivysaur did in PM or Yoshi did in Brawl. Hopefully DLC saves me lmao


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#612 Scuiriot

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 05:57 PM

ZachRay was SO close to beating Leo at SmashCon, as was Tweek again, then EVO happened again, and he was done and lost to Sam cuz he was dead in the water after that nerfed dair failed him. Another CLOSE set for Tweek against Leo gone down hill.

 

SamSora put in work though! Grats to him, but Leo still reigns supreme.


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#613 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 12:24 PM

Evo and SmashCon were both sick, congrats to Leo for being the new ZeRo.

 

Leo is on a whole different level man, two supermajors in a row he falls into losers and goes down 2 games in grands, only to make the comeback and get the reverse 6-0.

 

Anyone who says he's carried is an idiot, too. Joker is good, but not anywhere near broken. Leo just plays so cleanly all the time. He's so Godlike.

 

Shoutout to Samsora for putting in work, always the bridesmaid though. It's gonna be so sweet for him when he finally takes that 1st place.

 

 

Hero is trash lmao

 

I've been trying to get back on the grind, EVO got me motivated. But I still don't have a main, and my list of characters I wanna play keeps growing, rather than shrinking.

Bowser is still who I'm treating as my main, but I don't want to stick with him. I like playing the super defensive turtle style sometimes, it's definitely efficient. But sometimes I just wanna go in. I don't know. I might end up sticking Bowser in the long run, he's definitely forcing me to play better, and giving me better results when I'm actually focused. But it isn't the game I want to play.

My list of possible mains right now is like....

Bowser, Pit, Pika, Sheik, Yoshi, Sonic, MK, Wario, Palutena, Inkling, Daisy, Chrom, Joker, Wolf, Snake. I could see myself committing to any of those honestly and they all feel close to being right, but none of them feel exactly right the way that Ivysaur did in PM or Yoshi did in Brawl. Hopefully DLC saves me lmao

 

That is a long ass list my guy. Pretty much the entire top tier give or take a few.

 

The character struggle is pretty real all around it seems. A lot of people, even top players, still haven't found a character that really fits them well.

 

Watching Nairo play at SmashCon it was really obvious that he just doesn't have a character to fit him yet. Both his ZSS and Palu are missing something.

 

 

 

I've been putting a ton of time into PT lately, just when I thought I had my roster figured out. He's very quickly becoming my preferred secondary.

 

Also been playing a considerable amount of Ike, he's dumb but fun.

 

 

Right now the characters that I am actively and regularly playing (in rough-ish order) are:

 

Ken

Falco

Joker

Pokemon Trainer

Roy

Ike

Young Link

Incineroar

Ganon


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#614 Scuiriot

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 06:49 PM

There were some "Clutch" Rebel's guards to basically instantly fully recharge Arsin which won him several matches when he was behind, Leo doesn't seem to use it TOO often, but people were getting wise to his usual use then he switched and caught them off guard.

 

Leo's Joker is amazing to watch, no doubt, but damn... I want Tweek to win so bad. TSM fan. Tweek Fan. TSM TWEEK LETS GO!


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#615 Krevin

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 01:19 AM

Tweek and Samsora both put in W O R K against Leo the past two weekends. 

Hats off to Leo, he's willing to give up two games and two stocks to get the information he needs against these god tier players like Samsora and Tweek just to flip it around on them when his back is against the wall. Something that Coney mentioned on commentary that I've started thinking about a lot is Tweek pulling out secondaries to beat Leo. I think if he can get up 2-0 over Leo in a set, he should switch to something like Wario or Yink for game 3. Leo is very much the downloader type, so if he's down 2 games, it means he has two games of understanding your habits and decision making with a character. Switching characters might throw off that knowledge gained, and if nothing else, it might force him to stop focusing on how to beat your main, so if you drop games 3 and 4 to him, you can switch back to your main in game 5 and maybe pull out another win. I'd love to see Tweek try that next time.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, yeah, my list of characters is definitely long. Right now I'm thinking

-Bowser is my best but he feels wrong

-Pit buffs are significant but I know that I'm getting away with a lot of things that aren't real with him, like free shield pokes from nair because people are bad at angling shields.

-My Pikachu feels fraudulent. My neutral is smart as hell with him but my combos are disappointing at best. I also feel like he's inherently flawed, because so much of his gameplan is centered around landing aerials in neutral. I'm definitely gonna keep him in my pocket as a secondary for characters that need to be rushed down (Hero) but I'm not gonna main him.

-My Sheik is looking nice nice. But, she has such a rough time confirming any kills, especially against floatier characters. I can combo the entire cast to 200 and win neutral 90% of the time, but none of that matters if I can't take a stock. So, she's a maybe for me.

-Yoshi is still a comfort pick for me. If my back is to the wall and I feel completely lost in a weird matchup, unless the character has a sword, I feel like I can count on Yoshi as a fall back. He's the character that I played in Brawl, and for a little while he was helping me out in early S4. Still, there are like 10-15 characters that hard counter him on the sole fact that they have swords and he doesn't, so it's tough to consider actually maining him.

-Sonic, MK, and Wario are three characters that I'm interested in, and feel nice when I play them, but I haven't sunk in enough time to see results with any of them, or enough time to decide that I'm not interested in any of them, so they're worth noting for now but I doubt 

-Palu really amplifies if I'm playing good or bad. When I'm playing well, my Palu looks like PGR material, but when I'm playing bad, my Palu looks like I've never played this game in my life. She's also in a position where I could see her drastically changing, between patches and the evolving meta, and I could see her going up or down from her current position because of all of that, so she's a character I'm gonna keep an eye on, and once the metagame is a little more solidified, if she's a contender for like top 5-ish I'll consider her.

-Everyone else I listed is just good characters and I like winning, so those could all turn into something or I could ignore them all together, we'll see.

 

 

 

EDIT: Practicing MK tonight though and he's pretty solid. I was putting him near the bottom the tier list in early meta, but I can see potential for high tier maybe. That bair is stronq


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#616 Scuiriot

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 05:45 PM

Tweek and Samsora both put in W O R K against Leo the past two weekends. 

Hats off to Leo, he's willing to give up two games and two stocks to get the information he needs against these god tier players like Samsora and Tweek just to flip it around on them when his back is against the wall. Something that Coney mentioned on commentary that I've started thinking about a lot is Tweek pulling out secondaries to beat Leo. I think if he can get up 2-0 over Leo in a set, he should switch to something like Wario or Yink for game 3. Leo is very much the downloader type, so if he's down 2 games, it means he has two games of understanding your habits and decision making with a character. Switching characters might throw off that knowledge gained, and if nothing else, it might force him to stop focusing on how to beat your main, so if you drop games 3 and 4 to him, you can switch back to your main in game 5 and maybe pull out another win. I'd love to see Tweek try that next time.

 

Yea, I heard that and was like, YES totally, that might be his way of beating Leo.


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#617 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 11:59 PM

BANJO TODAY

 

 

BUT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TERRY BOGARD

 

 

 

HELL

 

 

 

 

 

YES


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#618 Scuiriot

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 12:17 PM

And a Second Season of Characters too get announced too.


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#619 The Great Red Bear

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 12:58 PM

Banjo is unsurprisingly okay. Feels like a very faithful adaptation of the character and it fun, but I don't think he's going to end up being a competitive contender. He'll probably just end up being a muddled mid-tier, but who knows. Maybe there's some crazy tech, I think there's potential if we can optimize the use of the grenade. And a fully invincible side-b is really nice, just throwing one out will get you a stock a lot of times.

 

 

New season is pretty awesome too. I'm suspecting mostly first-party characters in this one, seeing as this first pack was all third-party.

 

 

 

I'm so pumped for Terry. I hope he's a cancels/inputs style character like Ryu/Ken are. I mean honestly, I'd be surprised if he wasn't, it just makes sense.

 

I'm expecting:

 

Neutral B- Power Wave: Grounded projectile, not sure how they'll handle it airborne. Maybe dive and lauch the projectile when he hits the ground (Input v+>+A).

 

Side B- Crack Shoot: Front flip kick, maybe hops high enough to go over opponents moves, possibly spikes? (v+<+A)

 

Up B- Rising Tackle: Seems to be the only option for a recovery move, invincible startup a la SRK, shoots up in the air like a drill with a kick (Charge move, so v(hold)+^+A).

 

Down B- Burn Knuckle, maybe chargeable for damage/armour, just a simple rush forward attack (No input).

 

 

Much like Ryu/Ken his normals will probably be different normals from Fatal Fury, he's got nearly 30 years of fighting games to pull from.

 

 

His Final Smash is going to be either Power Geyser or Buster Wolf. I'm really hoping for the latter, so I get to hear (Are you okay?... BUSTAH WORRIF). Honestly Buster Wolf makes perfect sense, he'll fly forward like almost every character does, and if he lands a hit it'll go into the Buster Wolf animation.

 

 

 

Also, my biggest wish, and I'm not sure if this is a crazy impossible wish or not, but I REALLY want him to have an Alt for his Mark of the Wolves appearance. Not only because MotW is my favourite SNK game, but also because he looks TIGHT AS HELL

 

GMotW_Terry.png


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#620 Krevin

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:14 PM

I need to spend some time with Banjo. I like a lot of his stuff on paper but I didn't get to play him enough yesterday. Gonna lab him a bit and update this post as I go.

 

 

 

Update 1: Played him against some CPUs to get a feel for him, got hit with nothing but zoners 5 games in a row. He has the tools to counterzone and deal with projectiles I guess but that doesn't seem fun. I hope he's more fun against characters that actually scrap. 

 

Update 2: Yeah he's more fun against characters that actually fight. I don't think he's gonna be anything above like mid tier at best, unless there's something crazy I'm missing.

 

Update 3: Uthrow appears to be either set knockback or really low KBG to the point where it's basically set knockback, which would be dope if he could guarantee a follow up off of it, or even a mixup, but it sends a lot of characters too high to hit with uair.

 

 

Update 4: Uthrow isn't set knockback, it can definitely kill at 999%. Testing out throws now in practice mode. Low damage fthrow -> side B seems like it might be a thing but I'll have to test it out because I've been wrong before about training mode stuff. 

 

 

Update 5: Two framing is hard with this character. Dtilt can kinda do it but it seems like there's only like a tiny part of a hitbox that goes below the ledge. Dsmash can do it but the timing is rough. 

 

 

Update 6: It's all starting to click. I love this character. GUH HUH

 

Update 7: It's like playing all my favorite parts of a bunch of different characters. Doc's fair, Snake's nade presence, Diddy's weird B reverse movement while throwing items backwards, Pit's drag down nair and Pit's side B through the bullshit, Sonic's spring edge guard, Cloud's dtilt (but like way slower and I don't think it's good on Banjo tbh), Lucina's fsmash... Plus he moves way faster than I expected and his hurtbox is way smaller. I fully expected him to be another heavy and he super isn't. I'm gonna keep playing him for a while, I might even main him. Tough to tell because I still don't see him being better than like upper mid tier but he's the most fun I've had with a character since this game came out. Everything about him just feels right. 


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