Jump to content

Photo

Competitive Smash


  • Please log in to reply
626 replies to this topic

#621 Krevin

Krevin
    Deity
  • Secretly Jarly this whole time.

  • Deity
  • 4,405 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 07 September 2019 - 03:45 PM

Okay so it's been a couple days and I have a better understanding of Banjo. Enough to know that I'm DEFINITELY maining him. I still doubt he'll end up top tier, mainly because his recovery is a bit too punishable, but I think he'll end up high tier, probably a little above Ike. 

His down B is going to be one of his strongest tools, I think. He can drift so far while launching it and he's active so soon afterwards that he can use it to force the opponent to make a reaction, and approach by beating the opponent's reaction to the bomb. He can also use it in tandem with the egg to play the zoning game, but I don't think that's going to be his forte. Still, it's nice to know he can create and maintain distance when he needs to, should be useful for things like waiting out Arsene. 

His dragdown combos seem a little inconsistent. I believe it was Coney who mentioned on Twitter that whether or not he can consistently find strong drag down combos will likely determine how strong of a character he is, and I agree. He's fast enough and hits hard enough, but he doesn't have a lot of confirms. His fair is safe enough that you can use it against campier characters to break a wall, since it isn't heavily punishable but it hits hard enough that they're forced to respond to it, so characters like Olimar and Belmonts have to stop throwing projectiles if you can find a way in with fair. 

The recovery mixups are almost good enough to make up for how incredibly unsafe he is off stage. Drifting while dropping a bomb is already a better horizontal recovery tool than any of the Marth clones have in their kit, and the fact that you can drift into your own bomb and grab it for a bomb recovery is rather useful as well. Side B as a recovery tool is a solid Hell Mary, but it has enough wind-up that I've been killed before the armor kicks in more than once now. 

Spring edgeguards are surprisingly disappointing with Banjo. The spring is so big that you have to go way too far off stage, and it takes too long to get that far so your opponent can already be back on stage before you get out to the spot you want to drop your spring. He doesn't need it, though. Bombs make edge guarding and ledge trapping a piece of cake. 

His side B having 5 charges only gets really scary because it's such an important recovery tool. If it was only useful on stage, 5 would be more than enough and you would never notice. AFAIK there are still no confirms into his side B, so you have use it as a callout. It's still a pretty useful tool, even though it's a huge risk every time you use it. It can also be used to punish techs. If you time/space it properly, it will cover tech in place and tech away, and get you far enough away that it's difficult (in some cases impossible) to punish if the opponent decides to tech in. 

Fsmash is just straight up Lucina's fsmash with a different sound effect. Catch a landing with it or use it to whiff punish, and it starts killing near the edge at like 70%. And with your damage output, that's just like two little two piece combos that'll get you there. 

 

 

I could keep going. There's a lot of cool stuff that this character has. He also just feels so natural to the game. Like, he doesn't even feel new, he's so intuitive and comfortable. Part of that is that his entire kit is almost entirely made of tools that already exist on other characters, but that's not a bad thing. 

 

EDIT: Hoping for more first parties from the extra DLC. At this point, I'm so satisfied with Banjo that I can't really think of any other character I would even be interested in playing that also have a chance to make it in, with the exception of Dixie Kong. Ray from Custom Robo might have a shot, which is a character I would love to be able to play, but he would also almost definitely be a zoner and I don't wanna do that. I would love for Sora to make it into Smash, he's probably the only third party character I'm really interested in at this point, but even then I don't think I would actually play him because Banjo is so god damn fun.

 

 

 

Anyways TLDR I really like Banjo.


landscape-1525605402-childish-gambino-da


#622 Scuiriot

Scuiriot
    Uber
    Contributor
  • Squirrely Wrath!

  • Uber
  • 3,202 posts
  • Location:Texas?

Posted 07 September 2019 - 05:09 PM

The Tales of Series needs a representative, I wish Ray would come, but he like Zero/Waluigi already have an Assist Trophy in the game. I honestly wish they'd convert those three into full characters, Zero from his own series has SO many unique weapons and tools he can use and be such a different type of character from Megaman, Waluigi just so the Internet shuts up, and Ray, cus Custom Robo is slept on as a game. Monster Hunter would be a cool entry, using a variety of weapons and such. Outside of those, I really don't care, DoomGuy/MasterCheif would be nifty, but eh, even though I'm a Halo Fan and he's been in Fighting games before (DoA) it's just meh, but I could see it working.


Posted Image
^ <3 Nova.


Wolff should've been reclassed to squirrel.


Posted Image

#623 The Great Red Bear

The Great Red Bear
    Uber
  • bearsbearsbearsbearsbears

  • Uber
  • 3,285 posts
  • Location:NL

Posted 09 September 2019 - 12:48 PM

Banjo is super cool and a lot of fun, but isn't really vibing with me in terms of playstyle and kit. But that's totally okay, because I already have too many characters that I want to main anyway.

 

Plus, I genuinely believe that Terry will be a guaranteed main for me, unless he's just super boring and mediocre, which is almost impossible given the track record for characters so far.

 

 

Banjo right now definitely seems to be held back by a lack of good confirms. If his down-throw buried for a little longer, long enough to guarantee a down/up smash at super high percent, I think it would be really helpful. Also, some guaranteed throw followups at low%.

 

Right now the most consistent kill options I've seen from players is using downthrow as a 50/50, and it's not a bad setup. At high percent, if you down throw, you can either wait for the mash out and follow up with jump>side-b/fair, or if they hesitate even for a moment, or choose to stay buried, you're guaranteed a Up/down-smash. It's a pretty solid setup, and it has conditioning built in, because at low percents, you ALWAYS want to mash out.

 

 

 

 

I can see a Monster Hunter Rep, seeing as it's such a huge game right now and Nintendo and Capcom have such a good relationship. However, the fact that there are already 3 Capcom reps in the game is either helpful or harmful. Sakurai made a big deal out of connecting worlds and platforms through Smash Ultimate, and I feel like he'd be hesitant to include yet another rep from Capcom. Same goes for any other Capcom IP, like Resident Evil, Megaman X/Zero, etc.

 

Master Chief I feel similarly about, seems like having Banjo would probably be the extent of the interaction with Microsoft.

 

 

I know that there's a HUGE amount of genuine support for Sora, but with none of the mainline KH games on Nintendo consoles and Square Enix already giving us Cloud, I'd be surprised. Unless they're making an update or a definitive edition of KH3 for the Switch (a la PErsona 5R), then I wouldn't be surprised to see him.

 

 

DoomGuy still seems like a meme to me. I also realize that with Bayonetta it means that mature characters from games with extensive violence/gore/sexual content aren't necessarily out of the running, I still feel like Doom is a series that is so tonally far from what Smash is trying to be that it would be an impossible transition.

 

And frankly, FPS characters are all really just boring as shit. There's not much to go on except shooting and punching, which doesn't make for a fun platform fighter.

 

 

Tales is still a pretty niche series, but I feel like LLoyd from Symphonia is recognizable enough to be a real option.

 

 

Minecraft Steve honestly seems like a more likely option as time goes on. I don't really want him in just because I hate seeing memes having real influence, but you can't deny the scope and universal appeal of Minecraft.

 

 

I stand by my opinion that there's already too much Fire Emblem, but if they decided to add a Three Houses rep, I wouldn't be mad. Can we remove Corrin and trade them for Byleth? The Sword of the Creator could allow for something more interesting than just another sword character.

 

What I really want is an actual character though, not just another Silent Protag. One of the Three Lords, or maybe even do a swap style character with all three of them? I think that could be cool too.


giphy.gif


#624 Krevin

Krevin
    Deity
  • Secretly Jarly this whole time.

  • Deity
  • 4,405 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 09 September 2019 - 11:28 PM

Banjo is super cool and a lot of fun, but isn't really vibing with me in terms of playstyle and kit. But that's totally okay, because I already have too many characters that I want to main anyway.
 
Plus, I genuinely believe that Terry will be a guaranteed main for me, unless he's just super boring and mediocre, which is almost impossible given the track record for characters so far.
 
 
Banjo right now definitely seems to be held back by a lack of good confirms. If his down-throw buried for a little longer, long enough to guarantee a down/up smash at super high percent, I think it would be really helpful. Also, some guaranteed throw followups at low%.
 
Right now the most consistent kill options I've seen from players is using downthrow as a 50/50, and it's not a bad setup. At high percent, if you down throw, you can either wait for the mash out and follow up with jump>side-b/fair, or if they hesitate even for a moment, or choose to stay buried, you're guaranteed a Up/down-smash. It's a pretty solid setup, and it has conditioning built in, because at low percents, you ALWAYS want to mash out.
 
 Yeah, I agree with all of this, except for the first part where you said Banjo doesn't vibe with you, because I'm definitely maining this character, all in.
His flaws go a little beyond kill confirms into just confirms all together. Drag down nair doesn't guarantee a follow up, it just leads to a 50/50 where you can grab (not a confirm if they jump/attack/move but beats shield) or jab/ftilt/utilt (all of which are fast enough to catch movement, and sometimes fast enough to beat any moves the opponent might throw out on land, but none of which are true because the opponent can buffer shield).
If I were to buff Banjo to make him a top tier contender without overpowering him:
-Dtilt slightly faster
-Dthrow bury lasting longer
-Fully charged up B going a little higher
-Nair landing lag shortened just a frame or two
-All hitboxes of nair having the same trajectory

I really think that a couple of those small changes could turn Banjo into a real threat. I do think he has potential but isn't a top tier.
To get a feel for how the rest of the community views Banjo:
-Tweek is dedicated to maining Banjo
-Leffen is in the process of unveiling his 5.0.0 tier list still. He said today he's gonna finish off the high and top tiers, and he hasn't placed Banjo yet, so he's probably putting Banjo in high tier?
-Armada placed Banjo in the same tier as Yoshi, Captain Falcon, and Lucario. Like, mid tier. I don't agree with a lot of his list but I understand his logic.
-It seems like a lot of other players are putting Banjo in a similar spot. Like, upper mid tier / lower high tier. I can see that. It's still too early to really pin him down but it seems accurate.

landscape-1525605402-childish-gambino-da


#625 Krevin

Krevin
    Deity
  • Secretly Jarly this whole time.

  • Deity
  • 4,405 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 10 September 2019 - 12:16 AM

 
 

I can see a Monster Hunter Rep, seeing as it's such a huge game right now and Nintendo and Capcom have such a good relationship. However, the fact that there are already 3 Capcom reps in the game is either helpful or harmful. Sakurai made a big deal out of connecting worlds and platforms through Smash Ultimate, and I feel like he'd be hesitant to include yet another rep from Capcom. Same goes for any other Capcom IP, like Resident Evil, Megaman X/Zero, etc.
 
Master Chief I feel similarly about, seems like having Banjo would probably be the extent of the interaction with Microsoft.
 
 
I know that there's a HUGE amount of genuine support for Sora, but with none of the mainline KH games on Nintendo consoles and Square Enix already giving us Cloud, I'd be surprised. Unless they're making an update or a definitive edition of KH3 for the Switch (a la PErsona 5R), then I wouldn't be surprised to see him.
 
 
DoomGuy still seems like a meme to me. I also realize that with Bayonetta it means that mature characters from games with extensive violence/gore/sexual content aren't necessarily out of the running, I still feel like Doom is a series that is so tonally far from what Smash is trying to be that it would be an impossible transition.
 
And frankly, FPS characters are all really just boring as shit. There's not much to go on except shooting and punching, which doesn't make for a fun platform fighter.
 
 
Tales is still a pretty niche series, but I feel like LLoyd from Symphonia is recognizable enough to be a real option.
 
 
Minecraft Steve honestly seems like a more likely option as time goes on. I don't really want him in just because I hate seeing memes having real influence, but you can't deny the scope and universal appeal of Minecraft.
 
 
I stand by my opinion that there's already too much Fire Emblem, but if they decided to add a Three Houses rep, I wouldn't be mad. Can we remove Corrin and trade them for Byleth? The Sword of the Creator could allow for something more interesting than just another sword character.
 
What I really want is an actual character though, not just another Silent Protag. One of the Three Lords, or maybe even do a swap style character with all three of them? I think that could be cool too.

 

A lot of people on Twitter are saying Minecraft Steve as a Mii Swordfighter skin. I actually love that idea. I don't think he would be a very interesting character on his own, but after seeing the community's reaction to Sans as a Mii Gunner skin, I think we might start seeing a lot of Miis used to put in the characters that have enough appeal to make the cut but don't fit super well into the game. 

 

A Monster Hunter rep wouldn't be surprising, but I feel like the longer they delay, the less of a good call it would be. At launch, they were in the tail end of the new Monster Hunter release, so the first couple of battle passes would have been good opportunities to throw a Monster Hunter character in. Now, the hype has petered out a bit, I think. But idk.

 

Sora is the most requested character currently. I saw some infographic on Twitter about the top 15 characters requested in Japan, US, and Europe (I think?), and Sora was number two in Japan and number one in US and Europe. Most of the rest of the lists were super different, only a couple characters even made it onto multiple lists. But, with that, and with the amount of popularity Sora has had since the game went into development, I won't be surprised at all if Sora is the last fighter pass character. I know it's bad timing because it's so far after the hype of KH3, but I think being the last fighter pass carries some hype with it, and Sora is one of the only characters that could live up to that hype. Honestly, the only reason I'm not 100000000% sure Sora's gonna be the next DLC character is because Nintendo would have to get the okay from Disney in order to put him in. I don't think there's any reality where Nintendo would pass up the opportunity to put Sora in Smash voluntarily.

 

They didn't release details about how they're handling the future DLC characters. Until they say otherwise, I'm sticking with the belief that the rest of the DLC characters will be standalone, like Plant, and not have a stage and/or music and/or any other fun stuff alongside them. So I think that's how we would probably get a Monster Hunter rep tbh. That's also where a lot of the more predictable characters, like Dixie and Lloyd, will likely find their way in. Or maybe not idk I can't predict the future. But I think if the rest of the DLC characters are non-fighter pass, we'll see more Nintendo reps.

 

As for Three Houses characters, I'm sure we would end up with Byleth over anyone else, but a house rep would be dope. Claude probably isn't an option because his canonical promotions are all Wyvern based. Edelgard's are armor based, which means she could be the Hector we've all always wanted, and Dimitri's are lance based so he could be the Ephraim we've all always wanted. Either way I'd be into it. Byleth could be cool too I guess but we already have enough generic FE characters. Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom are all literally just Marth clones, Robin and Corrin are both bad and uninteresting, and then Ike is kinda cool but he's also sorta a Marth clone. I can't think of a way to make Byleth interesting when there are already 7 Fire Emblem characters. 

Also, if Byleth were released, Fire Emblem would be tied with Pokemon for the second most representatives from a single franchise. First place is Mario with 9, but tbh I don't think Daisy should be considered her own character since she's really just 8 extra colors for Peach. But I also think Yoshi and Wario should count as part of the franchise so idk I lost where I was going with this.

 

Anyways, my DLC prediction of Nintendo characters is:

-Dixie Kong

-Lloyd Irving, or some Tales rep

-Pokemon Sword/Shield rep

-Another Fire Emblem character even though we don't need one (Byleth?)

-Ray from Custom Robo

-Rayman (I realize the irony of listing these two next to eachother)

-Monster Hunter

-Gooigi

-Astral Chain rep

 

And my third party / only if they're a fighter pass:

-SORA (I really think it'll be Sora for Fighter Pass 5!)

-Tracer Overwatch

-Crash Bandicoot

-Sekiro protag

-Goku

-Madeline (this one isn't a prediction, just a wish, but I'm putting that energy out into the universe)

-


landscape-1525605402-childish-gambino-da


#626 Scuiriot

Scuiriot
    Uber
    Contributor
  • Squirrely Wrath!

  • Uber
  • 3,202 posts
  • Location:Texas?

Posted 10 September 2019 - 04:17 PM

A lot of people on Twitter are saying Minecraft Steve as a Mii Swordfighter skin. I actually love that idea. I don't think he would be a very interesting character on his own, but after seeing the community's reaction to Sans as a Mii Gunner skin, I think we might start seeing a lot of Miis used to put in the characters that have enough appeal to make the cut but don't fit super well into the game. 

I'm very okay with Mii Swordfighter Steve. That would be great, and I fully agree with that.

 

 

A Monster Hunter rep wouldn't be surprising, but I feel like the longer they delay, the less of a good call it would be. At launch, they were in the tail end of the new Monster Hunter release, so the first couple of battle passes would have been good opportunities to throw a Monster Hunter character in. Now, the hype has petered out a bit, I think. But idk. - Uhm, the "MASSIVE EXPANSION" of IceBorne just dropped on the 6th, and MHW is capcom's #1 selling game of all time.
  1. Monster Hunter: World – 7.9 million (and as of July there was a Celebration for 13 Million Copies sold.)
  2. Resident Evil 5 – 7.5 million
  3. Resident Evil 6 – 7.1 million
  4. Street Fighter II – 6.3 million
  5. Resident Evil 7: biohazard – 5.1 million
  6. Resident Evil 2 – 4.96 million
  7. Monster Hunter Freedom 3 – 4.9 million
  8. Monster Hunter Generations – 4.3 million
  9. Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate – 4.2 million
  10. Monster Hunter 4 – 4.1 million

And with Iceborne dropping with a Dual Release to bring in new players, and the fact that it as HUGE and BRINGS SO MANY ICONIC MONSTERS into the "New World" it's bound to Sell as many and more than likely MORE than World and will get another Kick in January when it drops on PC.

 

 

-Tracer Overwatch - I know she's the "Mascot" of the game, but she's very Linear and barely has much to work with outside of two skills which are similar and her pulse bomb ult and her extremely short range small clip dual pistols.

Posted Image
^ <3 Nova.


Wolff should've been reclassed to squirrel.


Posted Image

#627 The Great Red Bear

The Great Red Bear
    Uber
  • bearsbearsbearsbearsbears

  • Uber
  • 3,285 posts
  • Location:NL

Posted Today, 02:10 PM

ESAM won Glitch, so you can now expect Pikachu to be top 5 on every single tier list until the next major.

 

Congrats to him though, he's always been right on the cusp but couldn't make it happen until now.

 

 

 

 

 

Playing around with Banjo a little more and he's starting to feel a little more comfortable, but he still lacks confirms, which is like my #1 thing I look for in a character. He's fun though, just not my style.

 

A few extra frames of bury time, less landing lag on nair, and a longer grenade timer are the three biggest things I would like to see changed for him.

 

 

I played around with ZSS for the first time since month 1 of Ultimate, and I have to say, I wish I'd had more faith. She lost a lot of the things I loved, but the way she moves and the mobility options and tech chase situations feel really good and I think I could get back into her.

 

Also, PT has been solidified as one of my really comfortable characters, meanwhile Joker and Roy have dropped off significantly.

 

 

If I entered a tournament tomorrow, I would be playing

 

Ken for most matchups, especially fast-fallers

Falco against certain heavies and some of the swordies (Mostly Chrom/Roy because of bad recoveries and easy juggles)

Pokemon Trainer for floaties/ if Ken isn't cutting it

 

 

 

Ken is my guy, he's the character I've got the most time in on, I'm confident in my decision making, and my execution is consistent.

He's just volatile, because I tend to either steamroll, or get steamrolled. It's a rollercoaster ride for sure, but I love it.

 

Falco is another pick that just feels good in my hands. His gameplan jives with me, almost everything confirms into something else, and if you get like three correct guesses, you can take a stock in one fluid string no problem. He just gets bodied really hard by combo-heavy characters and his recovery is not great.

 

Honestly PT is probably the most comfortable pick, I guess having three characters being able to cover three different play styles gives me a safety net. PT is consistent, and I never feel like I'm getting bodied, even when I do lose.


giphy.gif







0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users