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Consciousness


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#1 ISuckAtUsernames

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 02:32 PM

Starting a topic to get some discussion going/get to know ya'll a bit better

Had an interesting thought the other day, wanna know your thoughts on the matter:
Say if human cloning was possible, would your consciousness transfer to the clone, thus resulting in two (for lack of better wording) "you" 's?

The only cloning experiment I recall was the fucking Dolly the Sheep example every univeristy psych and bio lecture brings up at one point, and sheep can't tell us what's up, y'know?


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#2 Leo

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 01:38 AM

depends on whether or not you believe in the existence of the "soul". assuming that's what makes you who you are a clone would not in fact be the same as you, and may not even be capable of functioning as a normal human. or it would be a static carbon copy of who you were when you were cloned and wouldn't be capable of growth of character. personally i think that a clone of a human that actually had a "soul" would probably commit suicide soon after its "birth". mostly because they may not be able to see themselves as a real human/wouldn't see any real purpose in their lives other than the idle curiosity of some scientist. if i truly had no purpose in life it would be rather difficult to even bother trying to live. on the other hand if a clone had no soul they would probably be close to an AI in personality and could probably be "programmed" to act however you wanted them to. they would essentially be newborn children and would have to be taught how to exist as a human so they could cultivate their own individual soul.

 

so to sum up, i think that if a human was cloned they would have two separate consciousnesses that would not be aware of each other, and could potentially grow in different ways. say for example a kid was cloned. by the time the clone and the original had grown to be adults they may be completely different based on personal experience, and if they were raised in different parts of the world they may even end up looking and sounding different.


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#3 ISuckAtUsernames

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 12:58 PM

I think that makes a lot of sense. My reason for posting was because of this ideal: 
All the cells that the clone would be made of would be your own, ergo the brain (where consciousness is located to me anyways) would be an exact copy. That to me was confusing, as if they're the exact same shouldn't they share a consciousness?

I liked the point about the clone not having a will/purpose of its own, too. I'd never have thought about that.


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#4 Leo

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 02:33 PM

as for them sharing a consciousness you could look at it this way: a song you download from the internet should be a 1:1 copy of the song that the person who uploaded it has on their computer as well. just because you play that song on your computer doesn't mean that it's also going to play on the other person's computer too. at best what you would have is two people who are exactly alike in every way, but still be two different people. they would respond to a situation in the same way, but that doesn't mean that they would automatically know that the other responded that way, or that they even exist for that matter.


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#5 XX++Archangel__Darkangel//

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 10:55 AM

Related thing, in stuff where they have teleporters, if the original consciousness ended instead of being transferred, there wouldn't be any way to tell. The person at the new location would report that everything was fine. Then if it becomes widespread people will end up committing suicide multiple times per day.



#6 ISuckAtUsernames

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 03:41 PM

That's implying that the teleporter breaks down atoms and reassembles them at the end destination. That's how i believe it'd work instead of it just being magicy and stuff

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#7 Leo

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 10:16 PM

I think the most realistic version of a teleporter right now would use wormholes. Not really related, but just my two cents.

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#8 ISuckAtUsernames

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 01:35 AM

You mean in the sense that they literally warp space and condense two points, thousands of light years apart to right next to each other? If so, i can see that, yeah. Space is confusing though


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#9 Leo

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 02:08 AM

there's also a theory that wormholes could potentially connect two different points in time, but no evidence to suggest that it's even all that likely(considering there's practically no space to send anything through i don't think we'll ever know)


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#10 ISuckAtUsernames

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 03:48 PM

That's the appeal of space. You'll never truly know. It's just speculation, hypothesis, and formula.

To stick with the topic, and tangent a bit with this space-talk: Do you think it'd ever be possible to ‚Äčtransfer your consciousness into something else? Like say how AI works? That's so interesting to me. 


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#11 Krevin except a lot cooler

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 07:55 PM

I'm sure there will be something. Neuroscience isn't something I know much about, but I'm sure there's some physical thing in the brain that could be transferred into a different thing to more your consciousness.

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#12 Leo

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 08:05 PM

wouldn't even necessarily have to be physical. there's been some research into turning signals from the brain into a digital...wave for lack of a better word that we can observe/interpret. one end result of that research could be ripping a "map" of your brain and putting it onto basically any digital storage whatever big enough to hold it. i imagine that the human brain would be an impressive size in any kind of digital format though.

 

Edit: i should mention i saw something about that several years ago, so i have no idea if it went anywhere.


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#13 Yosh

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 10:31 PM

i havent commented much on this because it kinda gets into something im writing about. but yeah i dont see any reason why memories and "consciousness" can't be converted into data for emulation. therefore such memories can be duplicated and run by a "clone" individual, but this isn't eternal life, as somebody previously mentioned - transferring data isnt transferring life. the new clone, having all of the memories pre-transference/duplication feels as though they are the same person continuing life, but they are not. there's also - as zac was just talking about - streaming. controlling an alternate body with your organic consciousness remotely. this would most naturally be accomplished with the same kind of emulation software i think, so that you arent actively giving commands but instead moving as naturally as possible within that body. given a few years of regular use, one would be able to use an alternative body quite gracefully. 


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MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#14 XX++Archangel__Darkangel//

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 01:20 PM

There's probably a story in there about an emulated mind, the inheritor of the mind of a great man who began acting strangely after the duplication; he spends the book trying to find out what happened to himself to cause that.



#15 ISuckAtUsernames

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 03:13 PM

i havent commented much on this because it kinda gets into something im writing about. but yeah i dont see any reason why memories and "consciousness" can't be converted into data for emulation. therefore such memories can be duplicated and run by a "clone" individual, but this isn't eternal life, as somebody previously mentioned - transferring data isnt transferring life. the new clone, having all of the memories pre-transference/duplication feels as though they are the same person continuing life, but they are not. there's also - as zac was just talking about - streaming. controlling an alternate body with your organic consciousness remotely. this would most naturally be accomplished with the same kind of emulation software i think, so that you arent actively giving commands but instead moving as naturally as possible within that body. given a few years of regular use, one would be able to use an alternative body quite gracefully. 

 

So basically surrogate intelligence/consciousness? That's a really interesting topic to write on. I'm guessing it's a thesis? If so and if it's ever published, i'd love to read it. My old english prof wrote something similar for his thesis, but it was on whether or not humans actually possess a soul, and what a soul is in literary terms. kewl stuffz


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#16 Yosh

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:06 PM

not a thesis, just fiction stuff. and i touched on some ideas related to it but not any of the situations in my writing.


Yosh on comparing Final Fantasy characters: "Balthier would kill Tidus with a ship. WHILE smuggling 20 kilos of uncut

cocaine from Bolivia and fucking Fran on the starboard deck."

NITRO/DURF/THUNK/LUNE/SEH/MIDIAN/DRSEXSTIX/JARLAXLE/KALEIDO/YOSHIQUACK/OMEGABLASTER/BYOXXYL

MATSUO/SMILEYTHEJOKER/MOONSTRUCKTIMBERWOLF/PETUH/GRANDSAGE/BONERSTORM/DATH/NOVEMBER


#17 ISuckAtUsernames

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:09 PM

still wanna read it tho


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